2017 lineups and who plays

vanquish the foe goes beyond the normal sports writing and breaks down BYU’s best lineups from 2016.

Not only is it a good read but it illustrates what Rose has known for years: We have had crappy inside play with some talented guards. Granted, KC was a Strong Forward masquerading as a Point. Going forward, BYU now has talent at the Center and Strong Forward so it will be interesting to see how Rose uses the new talent.

We have to replace rebounding and we have to replace the Point, other than that I believe we have the shooters. In my eyes the rebounding falls directly on Childs and Dastrup while the Point will be by committee of Bryant, Emery and TJ.

Since Rose is so fond of a stretch 4 lineup, Chatman, Hartsock and Childs could work to go with Emery TJ and Bryant. Anchored by Mika, 1st, Kaufusi, 2nd and Davis, last.

I still wonder why Mika is considered such a savior in the middle. He most played forward not center his freshman year. His numbers that year were almost exactly the same as Davis’s that year. Like Davis this year he got worse as the year went on. Now Davis has a year of experience on him…
So given Rose’s proclivities it is likely Davis’s job to lose the SF position while the center will remain CK mostly with whoever spelling him. The whoever spelling him will be Davis, Mika, and Hamson assuming Hamson used his red shirt year wisely.

In my mind, Davis is a great rebounder and hard worker but is a poor passer as well as a poor FT %. You are right when you say that Davis will see plenty of court time (Rose loves his seniors). Just look at Rose’s usage of Austin. The article points out that Austin along with any lineups was the worse by far and yet Austin got plenty of playing time. So yeah, I see plenty of play for Davis just because he is a senior. But his minutes will go down to accommodate Childs and Dastrup.

Why Mika will play plenty? Mika, Emery and TJ have played together forever. Davis vs; Mika is not a fair comparison. Mika was a true Fr while Davis was a Jr.

If Mark Few were coaching this team, we would see Mika, Emery, TJ along with 2 guys. We will see what Rose does.

apparently I didn’t explain myself well.

If you compare Davis’s last year at USU with Mika’s pre mission year.
The statistics are almost mirror.
Eric Mika 2013-14 25.6 11.8 6.4 52.7 61.7
Kyle Davis 2015-16 27.1 11.9 7.5 54.5 60.3

Yet everyone seems to think Mika will make a dramatic difference…

Davis, a Jr
Mika, a true Fr.

We both agree that Davis and Mika will play plenty of minutes. What makes sense to me is to try and figure out who are our best lineups.

I honestly can’t say what the lineup will be like. There are so many new players that I have more questions than anything at this point. I’m excited to see how well Dalstrup and Haws and Childs and Bryant play. I heard Mika gained 30 lbs. That would put him at 260. Would he play at that weight and would it change his game a little?

no I was comparing the freshman year of mika, before his mission, with the sophomore year of kyle davis before he transferred to byu.
I was not comparing Davis junior year and Mika’s freshman year.
The stats I cited were not from Davis this year.
Though I can in some measure forgive the confusion of the stats because though they did improve year on year. They didn’t improve much.

both of them had nearly mirror image stats.
both of them started strong and got weaker as the year went on.

This last season too Davis started strong and got weaker as the year went on.
That has nothing to do with the fact that Davis and Mika had nearly identical years That is to say the identical years were the year before Davis transferred and the year before Mika went missioning.
Yes nobody was talking of Davis as a savior for the team this year.
Moreover he wasn’t a savior for the team this year.
He was solid. Serviceable. sometimes better than average but usually not.
Mika too before his mission was freshman but still solid, serviceable. sometimes better than average but usually not. And the further he got in the year the more likely he was to be average than not…
So I do not expect much from Mika.
Ie I expect about as much from Mika as from Davis this last year…
It will be good to have another serviceable body. But if the paint is to improve it will more likely come from an improved CK than an improved Mika. Missions only very unusually actually improve an athletes performance. Especially the first year back.

A lot of what you see as far as production goes, is in large part, a result of who is on the court with them. As Chris has stated, TJ, Emery and Mika were a pretty lethal combination back in the day. Davis had his moments, but overall he was inconsistent and not terribly productive. Mika had the same productivity level but he wasn’t on the court with TJ or Emery. I suspect that Davis’ production will probably improve, given that he is a senior but also that he will be on the floor with better players.

This isn’t a knock on KC, he was a great player… but he was a triple double and turnover machine while trying to do way too much. As I reflect on the past season, I am amazed at what KC did, even though I bagged on the triple double obsession everyone had. In spite of what some posters believed, this past season’s team was too selfish at times and it messed with their chemistry. The Lone Peak boys have a proven chemistry, that is one reason why Mika has way more upside right now than Davis does. In addition to that, he is way more physical and athletic. He isn’t afraid to throw it down on somebody and is a more intimidating presence than Davis chose to be.

I agree with some of the stuff Harold said but I disagree with some of it too. I am more inclined to follow fish’ lead… I think his perspective is more accurate of what we will see. Then again, maybe this is the hopeful me speaking and not the negative me. Having said that, I actually think Davis can be more productive this year because of who he is playing with but it will depend on how the chemistry plays out. If players buy into the team idea instead of playing hero ball or trying to carry the team when they don’t need to, the result will be the same as this past season.

you nailed Davis perfectly. More than serviceable but as all my buddies say…no low post moves. He has been close to a double double guy both at USU as well as at BYU and I’ll take that all day but Davis is hardly BYU’s future.

Mika; however, was amazing as a True Freshman and his upside is very high. If you want a glimpse of how this all fits together, just go see the post “The White Mamba” and look at TJ’s highlight reel. Then ask yourselves who fits best with these three of Emery, TJ and Mika cause that IS BYU’s future. I’m not saying that Rose will start with this lineup out of the gate but on the other hand, I would not be surprised.

I want to digress back to BYU’s last season to somehow answer as to what I think will happen this season. As Jim points out, KC was Mr. Everything (I happen to think KC had to be Mr Triple double because he was the only guy that could create his own shot) otherwise BYU would have to settle with passing the ball around the periphery and take a crappy shot. I thought I would see more of Hartsock but I think the emergence of Seljaas put a damper on Hartsock’s progress. Just a better player out competing another. (Remember Seljaas was playing ball while Harsock was preaching the gospel) Now with the rust off, I hope to see more of Hartsock but in comes another ESPN top 50 player, Childs who shots 42% from the arc, and he has no rust. Just poor timing for Hartsock and I am a fan.

A starting team of TJ, Emery, Bryant, Childs and Mika would be pretty formidable but I think that is the 2018 team plus Dastrup and Chatman…more later

This is the statement I just don’t get: [quote=“fish, post:9, topic:6168”]
Mika; however, was amazing as a True Freshman and his upside is very high.

I agree his upside is high, or at least higher than Davis; especially considering that Davis will be a Senior and any time he spends on the floor is time that if Davis and Mika are otherwise equal should probably be spent on building experience for the future.

Amazing Freshman year? He started out looking like he was going to be a shoo in for Freshman All American…but like Davis this last year. He didn’t progress, in fact he seemed to regress. His final numbers, as I mentioned above were essentially a mirror image of Davis’s were that year. When Davis was a sophomore admittedly but a freshman performing at the level of a solid sophomore while good maybe even impressive, simply doesn’t add up to me to “Amazing as a True Freshman.”

When Davis transferred in nobody was saying of him he was “Amazing as a Sophomore.” True the standards between Amazing Freshman and Sophomore are different. But the difference between Amazing and not? I don’t think so.

You do get it.

We have talked about Rose’s style in detail here at Coug-fan. For some reason, Rose just does not develop inside talent. It is almost as if he says, “you big guys go figure it out”. Kaufusi should be light years ahead of where he is at. I don’t have an answer.

BYU’s greatest need by a million miles coming into this season is replacing their point guard.

here is the future

This video was taken against elite players, not a high school game, elite invitational players. Notice Andrus getting some of the TJ assists also someone mentions Findley Prep in the Video.

I tend to believe the Mika will see considerable time. I was a little disappointed with Davis this year, at times it seems like Davis lost contentration and sometimes his passes were sloppy. He missed a lot of bunny hops. It seems like his head was not always in the game like it should have been. I expected more on the offensive glass. In the first 10 games I think we will see a lot of different lineup play. Davis is the one with play time jeopardy and he better come to play next year.

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Yeah… I remember some posters here who claimed he would be a rebounding beast this season.

Ummm… I was skeptical and yeah… I guess that skepticism was warranted.

For Davis to average 7.5 boards in 27 minutes of play is respectable when considering that Davis was often guarding the other team’s inside scorer. The only things I have ripped Davis on is passing (pathetic) , FT % and his inside moves. He 3% is like 46% and he is a work horse.

This morning I was looking for something on Beo. Rated a two star after three seasons as an All Stater is somewhat worrisome. How do you be fly under the radar type of guy with that much exposure? In his case it may be that he was in the agricultural wonderland of SE Washington.
Anyway I happened upon another two star player that has gotten rave reviews from Coaches as BYU. Brigh Bryant…in his own words.

I am a 6’5 Post Grad at The New Hampton School in New Hampshire with coach Pete Hutchins. I have been on the varsity basketball team for 3 years at a 7A Georgia high school with a student body of 4,500. Mill Creek is considered the biggest high school in the state. In my 9th grade year I was voted by the coaches as the offensive player of the year and was moved straight to Mill Creek’s Varsity Team. I have played division I AAU since 8 years of age. My AAU team placed 5th and 6th in the nation during my 6 years with them. I learned from my coach,Tommy, at a young age intense discipline. My goal and number one desire is to play collegiate basketball. I am looking for both a strong academic and basketball college where I can work hard both on the court and in the classroom. I took my SAT June 2, 2012. I will take my SAT again on Nov. 2, 2013. I am a shooting guard and a point guard. I can dominate both positions equally if needed. I have a scorer mentality with the passing skills of a point guard. My 2012-2013 season as the point guard for my high school team I spent most my time outside the perimeter but yet I led the team in both offensive and defensive rebounds. I led all guards in my region with rebounds. I also led my team in assists. I was second in deflections and blocked shots. I set a school record with 60 steals in a season the most being 9 in a game. This season I was the starting PG for The New Hampton school which is in the NEPSAC League AAA. We finished 2nd by a loss to Brewster by 4 points.

At the time he wrote this there is no way he could have known of KC’s exploits…so interesting parallels. But both he and the coaches say that unlike KC he does have superior shooting skills.

that is why Rose is soo excited about this class coming in. Bryant has the KC skills, but with a good outside shot but… he is about to learn that you can’t bust up the LP threesome.

Think about that for a minute. TBC

the lone peak three are of course missing two of the rest of the team.

Toolson who chose to go to UVU after winning the JC championship a couple of weeks ago. Even though he had a BYU offer…and had played with Emery and Haws since before Mika joined them…Haws and Emery are used to playing with another small…

the fifth is playing BYU football instead of bball…leaving room for Dastrup or Kaufusi or whoever to play the paint…

Jake Toolson played Az basketball.


If you watch his video, the guy looks explosive. It is a head scratcher as to why he chose to transfer even for sports writers that follow BYU. Rose had confidence in him and I’m sure his minutes would have gone up. Sometimes it is tough to go from “the man” to one of the guys?

The Toolson who played at Lone Peak is Connor Toolson who will play at UVU with his cousin Jake.

Stutzman and Toolson join junior college transfers Conner Toolson, the Lone Peak graduate who helped lead Salt Lake Community College to the NJCAA national title last month,http://www.ksl.com/?sid=39447537&nid=1252&title=uvu-adds-former-idaho-player-of-the-year-to-heralded-recruiting-class

He chose UVU over BYU amongst other…
Toolson also received offers to play at BYU, Utah State, Colorado State, Wyoming, Saint Mary’s and Boise State. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865652160/UVU-basketball-UVU-announces-signing-of-Conner-Toolson-to-NLI.html?pg=all

The five Lone Peak starters the year they won the High School National Championship were BYU basketball commits, Nick Emery, TJ Haws, Eric Mika, and Talon Shumway all first team all state. Second team all state was Connor Toolson.
Connor is the only one not to end up at BYU.

Senior point guard Nick Emery was named the Deseret News Mr. Basketball recipient after averaging 17.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 2.9 steals. Junior T.J. Haws was named the 5A MVP averaging 17.1 points, 4.6 assists and 3.4 rebounds.

Eric Mika and Talon Shumway were named Deseret News first teamers, while fellow starter Conner Toolson was named a second teamer.

If Talon would choose to pull a Kaufusi brothers, the paint would likely be even stronger for BYU bball this next year…