And so it begins

So is that why you think man shouldn’t even try? Only God can make His system work, so man shouldn’t even try it?

Even with Joseph Smith at the helm, the United Order didn’t work. Perhaps we should live by the laws the Lord wants us to. The Church does pretty well with less than 50% living the law of consecration. Even with that, we have a push to give up on other laws and commandments such as the law of marriage between only a man and a woman. Those who approve of vulgarity and vile acts calling them love when in actuality the opposite.
Perhaps we can try living those simple laws first and do better. No, only at the second coming will we be able to live the United Order.

So is that a no, you don’t think people should even try? Just wait till the second coming?

Is this your youth acting out? Or are you just plain stupid? You do understand we aren’t to try the United Order now? You don’t go to the Temple and receive instructions very well. No, Socialism doesn’t work without the Lord in charge. It turns into tyranny.

So it’s a yes?

That would be a big no! Like President Benson taught, NO!

KC,
love the way you like to bait Scott… Classic…

The problem is he is right… NO we are not to “Try” to live the United Order as per revelation to the Prophet Joseph. He tried it back in the 1830’s and it failed miserably because of the pride of men.

So the Lord gave us a lesser law (sound like we are Israelites don’t it?) called the Law of the Tithe… That is what we are suppose to try and live. Which by the reports the church puts out, many members have a hard time living the lesser law.

So that’s 2 no’s, and we should wait till the second coming?

KC… your really funny… But LAME…

I guess the question is “Do you really follow the Prophet?” Do you believe is Modern Revelation? Do you understand the concept that the Lord decides when it time to live certain commandments?

If the answer is YES - then you will work on paying a full tithing and offerings and wait for further light and knowledge to be revealed…
If the answer is NO - well then United Order and when to live it is the least of your worries…

I never said we have to wait until the second coming, Please explain why you mentioned this? It makes no logical sense.

If you actually read what the Lord said at the time they did away with the United Order… you would understand why you Second coming comment is LAME…

But I think KC, you have more serious issues than just arguing with Scott about the United Order… Some of the things you have posted makes me wonder if you are just trying to get a reaction, or are you seriously disenchanted member of the church… Not sure…

And you can say all you want about “I solid with the church”, heard that many times before… just before the member leaves the church.

So you are a yes? We should try to live Gods higher law?

Socialism and the law of consecration are not the same law. The law of consecration is not a political law.
In answer to your question, we should strive to live the law of consecration now. We should give our excess to help others. Our excess should not be taken from us. We should give it. The law of consecration is not a government program. It can only exist in a society in which people are free to work to get gain and then chose to contribute to others’ well being or to chose to become proud in their riches. Compelled contribution produces no righteousness. Our society is not more Christlike by compelling individuals to give up their earnings. This simply makes society less productive.
In my opinion, Obama is pushing us over a cliff. He is not pushing us towards the law of consecration. He is pushing us away from it, towards the cliff of socialism. Socialism is not a viable economic model. The law of consecration is an economic model which requires freedoms, including the freedom not to participate.

So it’s a yes for you, correct?

We are the 7th richest country in the world. The six above us are all what most here would consider ‘socialist’ as all of them have much more government regulation than we do. Most of them have free health care, free college, and much better retirement options and they pay much less than we do. If you combine taxes for healthcare with healthcare costs (which again are zero for most of these countries) they pay half what we do for much better outcomes; longer life spans, lower infant mortality rate, etc. To top it off, the most popular programs in this country, social security and Medicare are pure socialism. Equating religiosity with capitalism is a relatively new thing among conservatives as far as I can tell. I was a Republican up until the first Reagan administration. I can’t understand why anyone who isn’t a CEO would be one now though as they stand for monied interests and little else. By the way, I know a lot of LDS people that are democrats and in perfectly good standing with the church. The idea that liberalism somehow equates to evil or is irreligious in some way is unsupported by the facts. Jesus himself was clearly a liberal. I don’t get any of this…

So another yes?

Can’t be true, have you check the LDS music? The message is clear… :wink:
Do What Is Right
Choose the Right
God Speed the Right
God of Power, God of Right
Choose the Right Way
Stand for the Right
Dare to Do Right
I Pledge Myself to Love the Right

(FYI: This was originally pointed out to me by a Democratic High Councilor who was making a joke about how hard it was to be in the Democratic Party and be LDS)

Hilarious Russ :slight_smile:

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Not sure how Jesus is clearly a liberal.
Also not sure how Republicans are conservative. If they were, I would still be a Republican.

I agree that Republicans aren’t conservative anymore in the traditional sense. I don’t know what they’re supposed to be ‘conserving.’ Money for corporations and the super rich? That’s the only thing I see. When I was growing up conservatives actually believed in conservation and the environment. Now its not even not a consideration, In fact concern for the environment is now considered ‘evil’ as it inconveniences industry in their quest for more at the expense of everyone else, and we can’t have that.

The only thing I’ve read that Jesus said about taxes was, “render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser’s” It doesn’t seem like he was a member of the ‘let someone else pay for me’ mindset of current day conservatism which thinks telling rich people that they didn’t build everything from scratch by themselves is some kind of insult they can use on the campaign trail. Jesus cared about real people and what we do to help people in need, He wasn’t a war monger, and taught that both revenge (“turn the other cheek”, “love your enemy”, etc.) and violence (“he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword”) were wrong. From my reading, he’s about as opposite of most conservatives I see today as I can imagine, but I’m sure others read it differently.

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It is well documented that conservatives donate more money to charitable causes than liberals. That indicates to me that the average conservative cares, while the average liberal only talks about caring. Additionally, most hunters are conservative. Hunters spend more money every year on environmental causes than “environmentalists.” As for the “let someone else pay for me mindset.” Unfortunately, that mindset is prevalent throughout our society. We have corporations that want tax breaks for their businesses. We have healthy individuals that want food assistance instead of assistance finding a job. We have families that oppose paying teachers a living wage to teach their children. And we have individuals that expect to get a tax cut by increasing taxes on another group. It’s not just a conservative problem, it’s also not just a liberal problem. It is a problem throughout our society. Individuals who have a very liberal mindset are not bad people. However, I probably disagree with them on multiple fronts. Individuals who are very conservative are also not bad people. I probably disagree with them on multiple fronts as well. Neither can claim that their ideology most reflects the ideology of Christ. Following Christ is not simply a function of choosing an ideology. In order to follow Christ, one must recognize that actions are more important than perspective. Liberals can effectively follow Christ. Conservatives can effectively follow Christ. Even moderates can effectively follow Christ.

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Well said Richard, well said.