Big 12 Door Closing a Little Bit More

This morning there is an article in the Houston Chronicle regarding an effort underway in the Texas legislature to put pressure on the Big 12 to admit the University of Houston. Under the plan, the legislature would withhold some funds to the other Texas schools that are in the Big 12 in order to put pressure on the Presidents of those schools to push for the University of Houston being admitted. I don’t know how successful this will be, but if it works, it is one less spot available to BYU.

If Houston were admitted, BYU would be close enough to be considered so I think this is a plus…Right now the big 12 is looking to add travel partners around W Vir.

hey, hey, hey,

So where do we go from here? This week, it has just been decided that all P5 conferences can have as many teams as they want and still have a conference playoff. The need for the Big 12 to expand is gone.
Our chances of getting into the Big 5 are gone.

I want to hear and read a lot of discussion on this and how do you think this news will affect BYU?

I want to have an informal poll. Tell us in your own words. Add to the list below if you feel that you need to, or stay to the list to get a stronger feeling of what needs to be done. Try to choose as few on the list as possible, but do as many on the list as you feel that you need to.

  1. Stay the course as an Independent, playing at least 4 P5 teams as possible each season.

  2. Go back to a Mid Major Conference.

  3. Stay an Independent, but play as many P5 teams as P5 conference teams play each season.

  4. Stay an Independent, but schedule enough FCS teams and lower level mid major teams to insure a
    10-2 season or better and a bowl game each season.

  5. I don’t care about being a P5 team or having a P5 like reputation. I just want to have fun watching us
    win every game we play even if it is a FCS team or weak mid major team. Let’s just win baby.

  6. Go through what ever growing pains that we must go through, even if it means 6-6 seasons to start, poor
    home game seasons to start, and some humiliation suffered to start, in order to pay our dues as we grow
    into a desirable P5 conference team or have the respect close to what ND has as an independent.

I don’t mind being independent because I see more games than ever! The team plays all over the place. The exposure is great and fans from Connecticut to Miami to Cali get to see them play in person. A mix of top P5s down to easier teams is OK with me. Nobody plays all top 20 teams.

Until we can win all the games we should and 50% of the ones we should not. I don’t think getting pummeled every week against a top 20 would be fun, good for the school, or the players.

I really don’t care much that we don’t have a conference championship. It is not what I live for. Sure, it added an interesting element but not the end all, be all. I don’t want a conference championship so much that I am willing to give up seeing the team play 80% of their games live. The MWC was almost like playing in an FCS conference as far as seeing the team play on East Coast TVs.


Thank you for your reply. I have some empathy for much of what you say.

I agree that it would not be fun to lose every game which could happen if indeed, each of the P5 teams we play are indeed, in the top 20 Nationally Ranked.

That is not the case. We play some P5 teams that are still in the top 50. I am sure that Pac 12 Colorado is not any higher than #50 and is probably lower. The same can be said about Pac 12 teams like Washington State and Oregon State. Other P5 conferences have at least one or two teams that do not rank higher than 50.

One sets them, teams of P5 conferences, apart from team outside the P5 is that there are more conference teams in the top 5, top 10, top 15, top 20, and top 25 than any conference outside a P5 conference.

I agree that it is fun being an Independent P5 team for programing purposes, as stated by the ACC and the SEC and the acceptance of that assigned designation seems to be accepted through out all of the P5 conferences. Yes, it is better than ever for us as long as we continue to schedule at least 4-5 P5 conference teams per season, Those Pr teams do not have to be in the top 25. They could drop as low as top 50 and for now, I could be happy with that as long as it is a P5 team.

Example: If we played a #28 MWC Boise State, and a # 37 ACC Va. team, the ACC with the lower ranking would be more acceptable to me than the MWC team because it is a P5 team and we could probably beat them easier than that MWC team. This is the thinking, for now, that I would like to see BYU do programing.
I would like to see us play at least 9 P5 teams each season with this type of programing. It is possible, and yes, at first, it will be hard to get home and home games. That is part of the growing pains that will pay dividends. No pain No gain.

I agree, that for us, at this time, being in a mid major conference in order to get a college championship, is not all that important. if I had a vote, like you, I would vote against it. There is no going back. We are finished for ever, under the current rules, with Mid Major conferences.

It would indeed be the best of all worlds if we were in a respected conference, like the Pac 12, where conference championships most often will go to the teams like USC, Oregon, with a sprinkling from Stanford and Washington, until down the ladder, just maybe, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, and BYU might have a rare chance, which I doubt if Colorado, Washington State, or Oregon State, would ever get that rare chance. So yes, the conference championship is not all that important, but being in a P5 conference that makes us legible to compete, is indeed important.

As long as we, BYU remain relevant in College Football, I agree that there are different avenues that we can take and no one way has to be the only way.

I also realize, that BYU must be relevant if they are to survive under the new college “Big Business” rules that are in force. We must do everything that we must do to remain relevant. There is no other choice.

GTwo post most resembles #1 choice.
If I am wrong, please tell which # you think your opinion most resembles.

Fish and Kay,

As you may know by now, what we have been talking about, as of this week, is a dead issue.
The rules now allow all P5 conferences to have a conference play off, regardless of how many teams the conference has or does not have.

Big 12 no longer has any need at all to expand and they won’t unless later, new rules changes things.

This is bad news for BYU.

Now that equally, the Big 12 and the Pac 12 do not need or want us, I would like to shift any future effort to getting into the Pac 12 which geographically, and church membership support wise, the Pac 12 is better than any other conference. Also, there is a better chance of getting back the Utes as a real rival.

#1 does sound like a reasonable approach to me. I have not felt the schedule over the last couple of years to be the end of the world. If we can win against all levels of competition on a regular basis the the sky will quit falling. I would be OK if we didn’t play any more FCS teams but most everyone does and an “easy” win sometimes is just what the doctor ordered to get things back on track, work in a few new players, try a few new schemes, recover from previous wounds, etc.

Also, other than being born in November and eating a large meal that month, it really makes no difference to me what months we play a given team in. Is a win better in Nov than Oct? I suppose it could be but that is dependent on many other factors.

Ultimately I love BYU Football and sometimes get too wrapped up in it but BYU Football makes little eternal difference to me so I have to remember to keep my balance.

I’d have to go with a mix between options 1 and 3. For now, schedule what we can for P5 teams. Which, from what I understand, is Tom Holmoe’s goal. I think it’s easy to see that what we were told when we went independent is accurate. Given time, we’ll have better scheduling, but it has taken time. I agree that scheduling only P5 teams would likely result in us having very hard seasons.

However, when looking at how Utah has performed in the PAC-12, it does look like they are starting to get through the growing pains and becoming more competitive in their conference. I think that BYU has a luxury that they didn’t have. If we slowly add more and more difficult teams to our schedule, we may have less growing pains until we eventually have a schedule with an SOS that most teams would be envious of, and because it was gradual, we could actually be competitive with that SOS.

I also agree that there is no point in going back to a mid-major conference. The only thing that would give us an advantage for would be if we wanted to play in a New Year’s game… with no possibility of playing for a National Championship. As an independent, it may be harder for us to get into a New Year’s game, but with how much harder our schedules are, we would actually have a chance, albeit a very small chance, of getting into the playoffs. As a mid-major, even with running the tables, there is no conceivable way in my mind that we would even be seriously considered for the playoffs.

Personally, I am really excited for this next season. We get to play some amazing teams, our games will be nationally televised, and we get to watch some amazing athletes play football. Honestly, that’s about all I’d ask for.

As for next season, I am excited as well but fully know that Hill has not made if through a complete season and likely will be reinjured.

BYU should look at joining the P12, it’s our demographic. If that cannot happen. Indy is where we need to stay (as much as I hate watching basketball in the Rec. league). Indy pays BYU about 8 million per year that that they would miss if BYU went back to the Mtn. I saw Craig Thompson the other night at the USU football statuam rededication and the thought of dealing with that jerk makes me ill.

With ESPN as our partner, BYU seems to be landing enough talent to stay viable.

First, I have to agree with most of your post. I’m thrilled that as an independent we no longer have to deal with Craig Thompson. Also, getting into the PAC-12 would be the ideal situation if we had the option.

I must point out however that your opening statement is incorrect. While Taysom was injured during his Freshman and Junior years, he was healthy for the entirety of his Sophomore year. I will admit that there is always a good chance of him getting injured, but I personally like to think about the possibilities of what would happen if he stays healthy.

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“Ultimately I love BYU Football and sometimes get too wrapped up in it but BYU Football makes little eternal difference to me so I have to remember to keep my balance.

I am guilty of the first half of your statement. Regarding the second half, the same thing could be said about just about everything we do or don’t do in life that is not Sunday School, Sacrament meetings, missionary work, temple work, and doing onto others as we would have them do onto us.

Some how, I believe that the Lord wants us to have other life experience, not instead of , but addition to those directly related to preparing for the best place we can get in the highest degree of glory. I think that the Lord is probably a good football fan as we are. Don’t feel guilty about loving our Cougars. Cheer them on every opportunity that you get.

No. 1 seems like the present strategy and the best possibility at this time.

I think that the Utes as a “real” rival is gone. It is just a figment of many BYU fans’ collective imaginations. The YEWTS don’t really want us anymore, and we can’t beat them anymore with the coaching staff that we have. By the way Ron, this is the best conversation that has ever occurred on the “new” site. Thanks, we have really got a conversation going here, a real THREAD. BB

I haven’t heard that story, here in Texas, at least yet. But if UH comes in, the Big 12 (10-11) will not admit another Cougars team. Especially one from Provo, Utah.Cincinnati maybe gets in as No. 12. I hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it.

Great post G Two. Pretty realistic.Perhaps BYU winds up staying the orphan that it is, a mid-major P-5 wanna’ be playing P-5’s, mostly on the road and playing some FCS. I like the Utah State rivalry. To me it is more realistic than trying to keep the YEWT thing going. Some P-5, some G-5 (i.e.-Utah St./Boise St., etc) and if necessary some FCS. But it would be nice to get into some kind of P-5 basketball hookup.

Bearloc: Great post. I think we are pretty much on the same grid. I don’t see a P-5 conference, unless there is another Realignment earthquake. We don’t have the coaching stff to win all of those P-5 games on the road. We also lack the P-5 depth because injuries can kill us, obviously.Look at last year. We were blessed to have Stewart in the wings, by some miracle, given his history.

Fish: Good points. I am sure everybody is concerned about Taysom and yet the possibilities of another injury. Yes, BYU could or should be in a P-5 conference. But we sure are on the outside looking in right now. Holmoe and company are doing all they can do to try and get us to P-5 or at least “visible” (al, la BYu TV, P-5 mostly road games in football). Unless another sizematic realignment comes, we are football indy. I would love to get out of the rec. league in basketball, even though our guys have not even won a basketball championship in the WCC. But our women are doing great. Execpt for basketball, the WCC is great for some olympic sports. Plus we have men’s volleyball and the WCC is great in baseball. But we do not fit the demographic in the WCC.Whatever, thanks Ron for getting this conversation going. Some sanity. I just can’t find my Blue goggles. Have you seen them anywhere Jim H?

Oh please Tom Holmoe we want to get out of wcc

Txcoug 1492, thanks for your comment.

If we stay focused and not get distracted with side issues, I think we can get our message across.

Now that the ACC and the SEC has accepted us, BYU, as an Independent P5 team, FOR PROGRAMING PURPOSES, the rest is totally up to us and our (own will) to become a full blown Independent team, like ND, and like all the other teams that are P5 teams in a P5 conference.

This takes, not begging, not requesting, but EARNING that significant title of a full blown P5 team.

If we act in every way like a P5 team, and if we refuse to act in any way that a P5 team can not act, than this alone will set us apart from all mid major teams and we will indeed be a full P5 team.

What ever amount of P5 teams that each P5 must schedule each season, we must schedule the same amount.

If post 2014 season, P5 teams are no longer permitted to schedule FCS teams, than we must not, for any reason, schedule any FCS teams. Just say No.

We can, by our own actions, make ourselves a true P5 team and we can do this without permission. We can do it without consent of anyone else. We will be a P5 team by our own making and nobody can stop us, if indeed we are willing to pay the price of taking on all the growing pains.

Growing pains includes possible 6-6 seasons for a couple years with our new SOS instead of 10-2 seasons playing like a mid major.

Growing pains includes not filling at first, LES with P5 teams but 3 games of mid majors and maybe only 2-3 P5 teams from the group of 9 P5 teams we will need to play.

Growing pains includes a possible drop in attendance at LES due to not having enough P5 teams playing there. This will only be temporary.

How many P5 teams did the Utes get coming to their home before joining the Pac 12? Almost none.
How many P5 teams do they have now that they are a Pac 12 member? about 1/2 of the games played.

The same will happen to us. The same happened to ND. Nobody but ourselves can stop us now.

Just say no to the short cuts or easy way out. Suffer some of the humiliation that will be required playing the stronger schedule. Just do it.