Brad Rock, DEsert News Just Lost Credibility With me. How do you feel?

Football
1

I could not believe what I was reading from the very respected and intelligent knowledgeable Brad Rock of the Desert News. Until now, I have nothing but respect for his genius in sports reporting especially as it pertains to BYU Football. I am a fan of his and continue to be, but-------

I could not believe what I read when he suggest that we go back to the MWC and the reasons that we should go back to the MWC. If it was nothing more than just putting out feelers to see how the fan base would react, I think it was a bad decision on his part to use his excellent reputation for this purpose. He should have though of a better way to see how the fan base would react without putting his own reputation on the line.

There is no going back Brad. We are not quitters. We are not looking for the easy way out. We are willing to go through the growing pains to make ourselves advance and not go back.

We are in between right now, of being a mid major G5 type team and a P5 type team. We are not really totally one way or the other.

We are fighting hard, the AD, the HC, the Athletes, and the fans to be respected by playing as many P5 teams as possible. We are not going to give this up just so it might be easier to get a better bowl game.

We are not looking for easier. We are looking for better. We deserve to be respected and we are willing to pay the price to be respected. We will do what it takes to get better. we are not quitters.

2

His entire article is based on the premise that BYU’s goal is to go to a New Year’s Six bowl. It’s not. Our goal is to have a chance to go compete for the National Championship. As a member of the MWC, that goal is unattainable. As an independent, that goal is attainable, regardless of how slim our chances are. We could have a schedule that is strong enough to earn a spot in the playoffs, but that would not be possible if we rejoined the MWC.

His other flawed argument is that occasionally playing games against teams such as Wagner is more embarrassing than playing a MWC schedule, completely ignoring all the other teams we have a chance to play that we wouldn’t if we rejoined.

3

His article is based on the knowledge that the program can’t sustain itself as an Indy, and as we will continue to watch a G5 team play in New Years bowl game, something we are not eligible for. Boise State is the model program for non P5 teams, and they will play for championship if they keep it up. That is all he is looking at, we need to get to Boise States level of a P5 invite doesn’t come.

I personally feel the P5 invite is on its way, and if we head back to the MWC we should make sure an exit clause for P5 is included or at least a low buyout.

4

Those are three words I never associated with Brad Rock…

he is a Utah guy… I went to the U when he did, His sports articles back then were pretty classless when it came to BYU

5

Brad Rock has been in my neighborhood for a long time and was in the same ward for 5 years then our ward got split up. First time I had talked to him before the big game vs Miami at Cougar Stadium of Ty Detmer. He was positive that we have a chance beating them because of Detmer. But I had a feeling he was the u guy the way he make some nonsense stuff about BYU at DN for a long time. Now he no longer living in our neighborhood which they moved some two months ago. Too bad that I didn’t do my part putting toilet paper on his property which we have seen other people do it.

But that article about going back to mwc was total nonsense idea of him which I will never agree with.

6

I would just as soon BYU give up FB as go back to MWC.

7

Hi KC,

Quote:

“His article is based on the knowledge that the program can’t sustain itself as an Indy,”

Yes,KC, and thus, my push, to do what it takes to prepare ourselves to be the ONLY choice, when the next P5 opening becomes available.

We do this, NOT by retreating back to a G5 conference, but instead, by preparing ourselves by scheduling ourselves, win or lose, with as many P5 teams each season as a P5 team from a P5 conference.

We were given this P5 independent opportunity largely because ND is an independent; Largely because the P5 conference teams, 55-60 of them, needed more available P5 teams to play outside of their own conferences.

We take advantage of this opportunity, by NOT returning to a G5 conference, (Mid Major), but by NOT scheduling anymore FCS teams, like the P5 teams from P5 conferences, since the post season 2014, can no longer schedule FCS teams.

We must Stop blaming other people or other situations for scheduling FCS teams.
“Just say No ! "

quote:

"and as we will continue to watch a G5 team play in New Years bowl game, something we are not eligible for.”

Response:

We are elgible, as an Independent if we have a 12-0 season. We are also elgible as a mid major if we win
the conference champions, getting past Boise State and Utah State, along with all the others that want that coveted bowl game.

Quote:

"Boise State is the model program for non P5 teams, “

Response:

As an Independent, we are a P5 Independent team for the purpose of programing.
Boise State does not have this status even though their winning percentage against us is better.
Utah State does not have this status even though in recent history, they have beaten us.

As a mid major, G5, conference team, we would no longer have that P5 status. We would be no better than
Boise State or Utah State. We would just be ONE of the better mid major G5 teams.
As an Independent, we are considered better than the G5 mid major teams.
Remember, as an independent, our chances of getting selected as the next P5 conference team member, would be reduced to an equal member, at best, along with Conn, Cinn., Houston, Boise State, Utah State, SMU and a few other wantabees. As an independent, following the outline stated above, we would be the only logical choice.

Quote:

"and they will play for championship if they keep it up.”

Response:

As long as we have teams like Oregon, USC, Ohio State, Florida or Florida State, Alabama, LSU, and about 20 other P5 teams, there is about the same chance for Boise State to get a NC as there is for us to get another one, or maybe about the same as Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV has of getting one. (Zilch)

Quote:

"That is all he is looking at, we need to get to Boise States level of a P5 invite doesn’t come.”

Response:

I like, and I respect, Brad. I do respectfully disagree with him on this issue. I do love reading his articles.

One does not get ahead by going backwards. One does not get respect by retreating. One does not get rewarded by taking the easy way out instead of earning the respect.

TCU earned the P5 status by winning BCS Bowl games. Utah earned the P5 status by winning BCS bowl games. Boise State won BCS bowl games. Houston and Hawaii got BCS Bowl games. We never got a BCS Bowl game, but we think it is not fair that P5 conferences don’t come running after us just because we are BYU. (Arrogance???)

Now, we think that we can go back to a mid major conference to make it easier on ourselves and still be the chosen ones, when a P5 opening becomes available. (More arrogance?)

When are we going to learn that we must earn our way into a P5 conference. Just having the name, BYU, and the history of 25-30 years ago, does not mean that today, we have earned the right. Having good facilities does not earn that right, Our declining home game attendance does not earn that right. We must act like a P5 team to earn that right.

Retreating and taking the easy way out is disgusting to me, and to many other fans that I know.

Quote:

"I personally feel the P5 invite is on its way, and if we head back to the MWC we should make sure an exit clause for P5 is included or at least a low buyout.”

Response:

The tooth ferry is not real. It is a good story for children.
Santa Clause is not real. It is a good story for children.

Getting into a P5 conference without acting like a P5 conference team, is not real. It is a good story for children.

To be real, we must schedulie as many P5 teams each season as a P5 team in a P5 conference has to schedule.

We must schedule no more FCS teams like a P5 team from a P5 conference, since post 2014 season, can no longer schedule an FCS teams, is not real to schedule FCS teams and expect respect from the P5 conferences.

It is a good story to tell children, as a reason for failing and retreating, and taking the easy way out, but it is not real.

Instead, it is admitting that we are not as good as TCU. We are not as good as Utah Utes. We do not deserve to be in their leagues because we are not willing to work hard enough to get into their league. We want the title without earning it. This is not what BYU is. We are better than that.

8

Bearloc, I agree with you.

People must start asking themselves these questions:

  1. Am I willing to give up, as an independent, playing teams like on our 2015 schedule, Nebraska, UCLA, Michigan, UCON, Cinn., Missouri, in order to have a chance to play all the mid major teams of the MWC, like Boise State, Utah State, and all the others in hopes that we can win the conference in order to play one major P5 team in a New Years Bowl game? Are we thinking like college students or worse yet, like college graduates?

  2. Are we willing to give up playing teams in our future schedules up to 2027 like Arizona, UCLA, West Va., Mich State, Mississippi, Cinn, Southern Miss all in 2016, or LSU, Utah Utes, Mississippi State, UMass in 2017, or Arizona, Washington, Utah, Wisconsin in 2018, or Va. USC, Washington, Washington State, Wisconsin, in 2019, or , or , or the list goes on. Giving up all of these P5 teams would be in exchange for maybe, if we get past Boise State and Utah State in our mid major conference and beat all the other wantabee teams in that mid major conference, we might be able to win the mid major conference championship and have an opportunity to play not all, but maybe one P5 teams.

  3. Can anyone remember that we have the P5 independent status because the P5 teams, (55-60) of them need more P5 teams to play?

Going back to a mid major conference, we would lose that P5 status, and those P5 teams that now want to schedule us, would not be able to because of SOS problems playing non P5 teams for those 3 games outside of their own conference. We are choosing, if we go back to a G5 conference, to fail and admit that we can not keep up. Is that what BYU is? I hope not. I choose at this time, not to believe it. At this time, I still have too much respect for BYU to believe it. I hope they don’t let us down.

9

Floyd,

One thing that I respect about this site, is that we are all able to voice our opinion, and hopefully learn from each other.

I understand that you have had a bad experience with Brand, and from your point of view, your opinion is justified,

I have enjoyed most of his articles. This one I do not agree with.

10

Dew, I totally agree with you.

“that article about going back to mwc was total nonsense idea of him which I will never agree with. “

I will go one step further, It sounds like, in this article of which we speak, that he wants to bury us deep enough that we can never crawl out of our hole, eliminating the chance of us ever being able to catch up with and possible surpass the Utah Utes again.

Having said that, I am one that enjoys balance. I always want to hear the point of view that differs from my own and those of our flock. The old saying is “ You always want to keep your friends close to you, and your enemies, even closer” is in play here,

I always want to know what the outsiders of our realm are thinking about us. Usually, Brad Rock, gives us a pretty good measuring stick of what others think about us. I appreciate him for that. It helps to open our eyes and minds about where we need to improve.

In the case of this article, I believed that he crossed over the line and lost much credibility,

11

Roy,

I truly have empathy for what you just said.
I went to BYU and to UCLA. I love both schools. Of the two, BYU has always been my favorite. They are the team that has always had my loyalty and my support.

My question is this:

If BYU gives up on our Cougars and says that it is too hard to earn the right to be a P5 conference team, and thus chooses the easy way out and sends us back to a mid major conference, than how can BYU expect the fans that they let down, continue to support their easy way out decisions.

If we go back to the MWC, I will be going to many more UCLA games and a lot less BYU games. My love will always be for my Cougars, but I will lose respect for it’s decision makers.

12

I’d prefer the MWC myself. Remember when BYU and TCU and Utah were beating up on the PAC10 and Big12. Pretty fun. Plus there’s this quote from an article arguing the exact opposite which I actually think is a pretty big deal and I think would put us on the national stage a lot more often:

“I must concede, however, that the G5 conferences have better access under the CFP system than they did in the BCS years. Specifically, the highest ranked G5 team gets a New Year’s 6 bid no matter what, whereas non-AQ teams only got an automatic BCS bid if they were ranked in the top 12 or ranked in the top 16 and above an AQ conference champ. It must be admitted, then, that membership in a G5 conference is more valuable now than it was during the BCS years.”

The way things stand now we lose all national exposure when one game is lost. How many undefeated seasons does BYU have in its more than 100 year history? I think two right? What’s that, 1 in 50 odds? Do we really want to wait around as an independent for another 50 years and maybe get a chance to play for a national championship again?I think we’d be fortunate just to win the conference championship regularly. Pride put us in this position and a little humility isn’t such a horrible thing. I don’t think there’s any chance the P5 conferences are going to allow us any way to get into the NC game, no matter how good we are. They’re still bitching about our NC from 1985. Edited: Whoops wrong year. I thought I typed 1984 but must have had a senior moment…

13

This guy does not agree with you about using the Boise State model…

http://www.tornbysports.com/byu-football-boise-state-model-not-the-answer/

Brings up some interesting ideas…

14

True that fan doesn’t agree with me, but he also missed the point that staying the course we can’t sustain ourselves.

And his paragraph about what I have been saying is true, G5 has better access today than us, we are not even included with G5 programs.

“I must concede, however, that the G5 conferences have better access under the CFP system than they did in the BCS years. Specifically, the highest ranked G5 team gets a New Year’s 6 bid no matter what, whereas non-AQ teams only got an automatic BCS bid if they were ranked in the top 12 or ranked in the top 16 and above an AQ conference champ. It must be admitted, then, that membership in a G5 conference is more valuable now than it was during the BCS years.”

The goal should be P5 no matter what, and I just feel until that opportunity knocks again, our program as a whole in all sports, is better suited in the MWC or other G5 conference instead of Indy. We just can’t keep it up and when the ESPN deal expires, we are in trouble.

15

KC

I will be quoting you off an on:

KC: “ staying the course we can’t sustain ourselves.”

R Uharriet: I agree with you. The HC agrees with you. The AD agrees with you. We all give it 3 years approximately to get into a P5 conference before we say No More Independence. Hopefully we will be accepted into a P5 conference before that time.

KC: "G5 has better access today than us”

R Uharriet: To get into a Power 4 Play Off we as an Independent, need to go 12-0 season.
To get into the P4 power play off as a member or MWC , We would need to beat Boise State, Utah State, and all the other team wannabes in the conference and than just maybe, we just MIGHT be invited to that play off.

KC: “ we are not even included with G5 programs”.

R Uharriet: That is a good thing. We want to distance ourselves as far as possible from anything that suggest G5 or mid major and instead, we must be as much as possible like a P5 Independent team, scheduling like all the other P5 teams that are in P5 conferences.

KC: "I must concede, however, that the G5 conferences have better access under the CFP system than they did in the BCS years”.

R Uharriet: I respectfully disagree with you. Remember how easy it was for Hawaii, Houston, Boise State,
TCU, and Utah Utes to get a BCS Bowl in a very short time. How many, (None), Mid majors got into the the Power 4 play off?

KC: membership in a G5 conference is more valuable now than it was during the BCS years.”

R. Uharriet: Again, I must respectfully disagree. It is my opinion, that we are better off as an Independent
P5 team for programing purposes while no other G5 team has that P5 label attached to their team name.

If we were to retreat and go backwards into a G5 conference again, we would lose that coveted P5 status that we now enjoy. Also, all of the P5 teams that are signed up to play us now, would like ND, cancel out on us because they can only play designated P5 teams for those 3 games that are not in their conference.

KC: I just feel until that opportunity knocks again, our program as a whole in all sports, is better suited in the MWC or other G5 conference instead of Indy.

R. Uharriet: Again, I totally disagree with you, however I do respect your right to differ with me. A diverse group of opinions are far better for all of us to learn from each other. It is much better than having cooking cutter opinions where we all agree. That stunts our growth. Thanks for your opinion.

16

Ron, everything in my post that was in " " was referencing the article of the blogger, not my original thoughts. Just something I pulled from the previous linked blog.

17

KC, I always enjoy reading your opinions.

Some of them I agree with while some I do not.
One way or another, I learn what the opinions of others are regarding what is best for our cougars,
and I appreciate and respect that. Thanks for your contributions.

18

Mike H,

I enjoyed reading your opinion. It was well written and I am sure that you have many others that miss the old days of which you speak, being the king pin beating up on teams among the mid majors.

I am sure that you and others that think as you do, miss those 10-2, 11-1, and almost 12-0 seasons.

Yes it was fun being the conference champions and the flag ship of those, (WAC/MWC) mid majors. Your opinion is valuable and respected. I think that neither of us are right or wrong. We just have different opinions.

For me, playing Nebraska, Boise State, UCLA, Michigan, UConn, East Carolina, Cinn., and Missouri in 2015, and Arizona, Utah Utes, UCLA, West Va., Michigan State. Boise State, Cinn., and Southern Miss in 2016, and LSU, Utah Utes, Boise State, Mississippi State, and UMass in 2017, and for starters, without a full schedule for 2018 playing Arizona, Washington, Boise State, Utah Utes, and wisconsin is really fun and exciting.

I would rather play these teams and have a 6-6 season than to play teams like Idaho, Idaho State, Savanna State, Weber State, Wager, San Jose State, Fresno State, SDS, Wyoming, New Mexico. UNLV and other mid-major teams and have a 12-0, 11-1, or 10-2 season. 11 years straight of winning seasons playing cream-puffs mean nothing to me. Having 11 bowl games playing nobodies mean nothing to me.

I would rather not play a bowl game, any where, any time vs any team than to give up the fantastic schedules that our AD has put together for us.

1 Like
19

I agree that the goal should be P5 no matter what. However, I disagree that being in a G5 conference is more conducive to that goal than being Independent. While they have better access for the New Year’s Day bowl games, I don’t see a G5 team ever making the playoffs. With some of the schedules that Tom Holmoe is putting together, BYU would have a chance at the playoffs if they ran the table. We also get much higher revenue and exposure as an Independent than as a member of a G5 conference.

While I agree that being Independent is not sustainable compared to the P5 teams, I don’t see that being in a G5 conference would be any better. If the revenue we gain from being Independent isn’t high enough to be sustainable, how would the lower amount of revenue we would be getting from being in a G5 conference be any better? If revenue isn’t why being Independent is sustainable, then what is the problem? As an Independent we are considered a P5 team for scheduling, which we would lose if we joined a G5 conference.

Until we get an invitation to a P5 conference, I don’t see that we have a better option than Independence.

20

We haven’t been able to run the table in 30 years, we are not too big for the MWC or other G5, it’s actually where we are at right now. Our odds of running the table as Indy are far less than making a G5 playoff like Boise than following up the next year with a great season. Point is, coming off Boise states NY6 bowl last year, if they run the table this year they are in the playoff. We run the table this year and we make a NY6 bowl