Here are some things that I think stop BYU from this goal.
Playing independence, sure it nice to play these great teams, but to get to the Championship, you basically have to be in a P5 conference.
Academic requirements have increase to the point that good players can’t come to BYU because they don’t have a high enough ACT score. The killer Linebacker that plays for ASU this year was recruited by BYU, his ACT scores stopped him from coming. Dewey Gray one of the all time greats DB’s at BYU had a ACT score of 12, Coach Edwards took a chance on him and look how well that turned out. He could not even get into BYU now.
Fans are losing interest, I think the average game attendance this year was some where around 53,000. When Utah came last year, you could still get a ticket two hours before the game.
Scheduling is a killer, When BYU look back at the Bronco Mendenhall reign with fondness of his 5-6 10 win seasons, what they fail to remember is that most of the teams he beat were mediocre at best. Yea, we had some signature wins, but for the most part, they played MWC type teams. I believe one of the motivating factors for Mendenhall leaving was the up coming scheduling, I also believe that is why he said “Independence can not be sustained”
Not sure what the answers are, but I also believe very strongly that BYU administration needs to decide what they want to do. Do they want missionary tools or sports teams, Do they want to be an Academic Institution to the point they are limiting the best athletes from coming to BYU?
For you that have gone to BYU during the time of Lavell Edwards… Could you meet today’s academic, and BYU rules that are in place today? Just curious…
Like I said, I not sure what the “Happy Medium” is for BYU… Any suggestions?
I for one am not giving up on independence. Before we worry about playing for a CFP championship let’s just worry about winning 9 games. The exposure and money … which funds everything in the BYU sports world is only going to be had by staying Independent. TV games, big neutral site games and yes P5 games at home and away are good for recruiting. If people think that going to a little G5 conference is going to get us anywhere they aren’t thinking correctly. Will big time recruits come for that kind of schedule? No TV? No exposure? Do they want to play the big boys? Independence brings BYU about 20 million more per year … not including bowl game money which won’t be shared.
Now, I agee with Floyd on the academic issues. I think there needs to be a meeting on this issue. The irony of the issue is that a lot of good kids and athletes … who are smart … cant get into BYU! If they applied to BYU-I they would get in. I think the BYU-I admissions should apply to BYU sports. These kids are spending 4 - 6 hrs a day training and practicing for their sport and that has to account for something. Floyd hits on a valid point. Either that or move the sports program to Rexburg and let the students choose which campus they want to attend. The die hard study only kids go to Provo and the more well rounded kids with 3 to 3.8 grade point averages can go to Rexberg and watch that school population.explode to 60,000. But, the fallacy of thinking that BYU should go to a G5 conference and think that they can recruit better players if they do … or attract good coaches … or get exposure … or have an ESPN contract … or nationally televised games … just isn’t well thought out.
Grades and admissions are a problem and it needs to be addressed and discussed by the BOT and Worthen and terrible AD Holmoe need to put it on the agenda.
The honor code would not have been a problem for me. I don’t think it is any stricter now than when I was there 73-76. I think when I was there it may not have been enforced strictly for some athletes but I doubt anything has changed with the code but the enforcement for everybody across the board is probably more strict. Can you imagine Jim McMahon and a few others at BYU today? I believe Lavell Edwards was allowed to handle honor code issues within the program up until about the mid 90s. With social media the way it is today a violation is all over the internet in no time and it can’t be handled within the program anymore.
I never did anything contrary to the honor and had no real desire to… I realize that isn’t the case for an athlete that is not a church member and some within the church. I had my issues and won’t judge anybody but adhering to the honor code wasn’t an issue for me. Academics is another issue. I was not a good high school student. I went to Snow College for a few years and then served a mission. In my day if you served an honorable mission BYU had to take you regardless of GPA, you might be on probation for a semester but they had to take you. I may not have been admitted right out of high school in 68 but my JC grades were OK and I was an RM so I got in no sweat in 72 after my mission. I doubt that would be the case today. The church is at least 10 times larger now than when I was at BYU and the competition to get in is intense. There are many more RMs than in Oct. 72 when I got home. There is no way the church can admit somebody anymore by virtue of being a return missionary.
Back in the early 70s BYU was considered a place with inflated GPAs. A lot of employers weren’t that impressed with your high GPA from BYU. There is no way I would be admitted to BYU today with the credentials I had in the 70s. I had a decent GPA at BYU but I suspect I wouldn’t compete very well with the students of today at BYU.
It is certain the church won’t loosen honor code standards for anybody. I doubt they will lower academic standards for anybody either. BYU has to figure out a way to be like Stanford and win in spite of the academic standards or the program will remain mediocre in the major sports
Nice post for a change. Excellent points!
I do have a question. How does Stanford, USC and other top acedemic schools get great athletes? I’m sure their ACT scores for entrance are also high too.
USC have no minimum ACT requirements, but they get their recruits mostly off of Tradition of the football program. Everyone has heard of USC football.
Stanford does not offer “football” scholarships, the scholarships are for the academic disciplines. Up until the current coach, Stanford was not very good at football. Plus having a Stanford degree right now, gives you more opportunities in the real world than BYU does. Before you get all bunched up, BYU has some very highly rated programs, but not to the level of Stanford overall as a school.
None of the schools you mention has an HC people have to live by.
No one going to thier school has to have an ecclesiastical endorsement to enter the school.
When I first started noticing the downward spiral is when I noticed that there are very few JUCO players on our team right now. They use to be the stop gap players we would get until the underclassman was up and ready to play.
With the new academic/school standards, Kalani and company can not recruit Juco players because many of them can not fill the SAT/ACT/GPA requirements of BYU.
I do want to go back to the Jim McMahon days where players were not held accountable, but I think there should be some type of balance for players that make mistakes. As long as it is not a moral issue like Chasity, I think the players should be able to work through it with their Ecclesiastical/Adviser.
We need a balance in the HC and how it is administered. Not sure how to do that though.
USC requires either SAT or ACT. So does Stanford. They are both Universities in the California University system which requires SAT and/or ACT scores.
Back to the question. They get great talent even though their entrance requirements are much higher. So, perhaps BYU needs to go after players who can pass the ACT. Stanford manages to.
I would have to agree with you on having a lot of issues dealt with by bishops rather than the school, except serious violations. A few years ago a linebacker named Hadley went to Vegas and was caught partying and drinking and it was all over the social media. I think a Ute fan caught him and recorded the whole thing on his cell phone. It seems he was suspended for a few games but wasn’t suspended from school. That is what I remember but my memory could be faulty. I would be agreeable to those types of things being referred by the school to ecclesiastical authorities and then the ecclesiastical authorities could make a recommendation but they aren’t going to ask me what I think.
There have been some issues that have seriously impacted the athletic programs. Brandon Davies suspension in 2011 probably cost BYU a final 4 berth. Harvy Unga’s expulsion from school was a big deal because he was one of the school;s all time great running backs. If he would have played in 2010 he would have been a big boost to the offense on a team relying on a freshman quarterback. It was running back by committee that year.
How is this any different than the Lavell era? Basically the same thing took place.
It just might have been the huge contract he signed with Virginia and the fact that fans weren’t happy with all of those 10 win seasons… they got spoiled and wanted more. Bronco also had a better bowl game winning % than Lavell I think. He wasn’t as bad as people thought.
I was accepted by BYU and started in June of 72. Based on my first 2 years of college with a 1.65 GPA, (playing around instead of studying) they would not have accepted me as a garbage collector (much less a student) - except that I also served an honorable mission. My BYU GPA was a 3.8 (making up a lot of courses from my first 2 college years) and was selected to a couple of honor societies. I went on to earn 2 Masters degrees. My story is not exceptional. There are a lot of kids who could do well in college despite less than stellar academic resumes, if given a chance.
My only problem with the honor program was having hair over my ears, the day after seeing a picture of some BYU players with hair longer than mine. I had only neglected to get a haircut and did so with no other problems with the honor code. Given the amount of time spent practicing their sport, I would not be criticizing the athletic department for allowing some lowering of the academic standards (not drastically). I also agree that allowing clergy to counsel and make recommendations is a good idea for some problems.
One other thing I think has hurt BYU FB is that the jucco program - as a feeder of players to BYU - was discontinued.
The biggest loss was the top flight Ricks JC program. Great farm team … not sure that athletic program wasn’t prematurely discarded …: it was a benefit for that college and BYU.
Floyd: Great post, I pretty much agree with all of your points. BYU has become a female dominated campus and student-body.Due to Title IX and the ratio of male to female student body BYU has lost at least two major men’s sports: men’s wrestling, men’s gymnastics. The penchant for the BYU BOD’s to eliminate men’s athletic programs and to not have realistic admissions standards for talented men’s athletes is unrealistic and unfair. I support women’s athletics, but it is much more difficult to have competitive football and men’s basketball rosters with the unrealistic admissions standards vs. women’s basketball competition. It is also a reality that men’s sports financially supports all of the women’s sports as well as the men’s diminishing sports at BYU. Plus the unrealistic football schedule set up by the athletic director is a major cause of the loss of competitiveness in football.
The difference is that Lavell WAC/MWC teams were a lot better than they are now. Wyoming was tough, So was New Mexico under Rocky Long, SDSU was good, as well as AF.
If you can’t get over your man crush on Bronco and understand that there is not much I can say…
BTW, one of the reasons BYU left the MWC was that the other teams in the league were not keeping their teams competitive (i.e. New Mexico, UNLV).
OR Bronco saw the writing on the wall and told himself that he had to coach through a season like this past one that would tarnish his image a great Head Coach…
either point is valid.
But it was BRONCO who said independence was not sustainable, which leads me to believe the later statement was correct.
We lost Francis Bernard to a DUI… He was basically forced to withdraw from BYU, in order not to get suspended by the Honor Code office.
Image what would have happened if Bernard was able to go through his bishop to repent and make amends.
Although, I did a couple of his high school games and let’s just say he was not the most humble of players… :O)
What I find interesting is how the Honor Code has divided BYU fans/students and members of the church in general. The code is not doctrinal based, it was an attempt by President Wilkenson to keep BYU from going down the path of other college during the 60’s. Of course, he got it approved by the BOT, but until that time, BYU had no special Honor code.
I know with all good things, some people take it too serious and too far. That is what I believe the honor code office has done in enforcing the code. (Personal Opinion only).
Lavell stated on multiple occasions that he felt the bowl game was the reward for winning the Conference championship, that he never really took winning the bowl game as seriously as he did the conference championship. That is why when they went to the bowl games, he would have his players invite their spouse, kids, parents, etc on the trip to the bowl game.
Right or wrong, that is why Lavell bowl record was never great… he just didn’t care about it.
I have no man crush on Bronco but I do have a motivation to defend the truth and help others see reality. Those facts seem obvious and evident at this point.
I guess we will see how the football team performs over the next several seasons.