Excommunicating those with doubts needs to stop

Off-Topic
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Through those who hold keys of revelation are decisions made. Not through you.

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Every member not ony has a voice, but a sustaining vote. And you are fooling yourself if don’t think the voice of one doesn’t matter to the Lord.

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I know. Look what Lucifer’s one voice of objection instead of sustaining did in the Council of Heaven. Pulled one-third of our brothers and sisters away from Heavenly Father.

Sustaining vote is not a political election. When you raise your hand rejecting the calling, it has no bearing on whether the person will hold the calling or not. Everyone in the room could raise their hand against a calling and all they are doing is rejecting the Lord’s decision. This isn’t a democracy in the Church.

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Study up and get back to me

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Study what? You are ignorant on this issue as well as many others. You need to study more. A sustaining vote is not an election. In “The Guide to the Scriptures” here is what sustaining votes are: “To pledge support to those serving in general and local Church leadership positions.” It’s not an election. Everyone could vote no and it doesn’t mean the calling would be changed. I’ll even go further after reading the information in that section. We are actually pledging to support the Godhead with their choice for callings. Like I said, you are ignorant.

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Study up before you make these claims, or are you now going to claim you know someone who had this happen the them, after they had their same patriartical blessing duplicated to him by another patriarch?

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In “The Guide to the Scriptures” here is what sustaining votes are: “To pledge support to those serving in general and local Church leadership positions.” It’s not an election. It’s apparent that you are consistently at odds with long time members of the Church who are vastly more knowledgeable with scripture, Church and all around knowledge of the subjects you continually kick against.

There isn’t two or more people standing for the same calling and then the congregation votes who they want. If you want that sort of Church, then start your own. But, it’s not a part of the Lord’s Church.

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Try again, keep looking, you will find it.

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You are almost there, keep going.

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But you aren’t there. As stated by the Church, it’s a pledge to support. No voting as in elections. Admit you were wrong.

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KC… stop it ok… your wrong and you know it… especially if you have been in leadership positions as you claim.

According to the General Handbook, When members are asked to support someone for a new position (the law of common consent), they are asked if they are willing to support the person in the calling they have been offered. NO WHERE do we as members of the church get to “undo” a calling that has been made. We can voice our objections, but the calling stands (trust me, I have done this myself).

The raising of the arm to the square for a sustaining vote has NOTHING to do with the call from the authority offering the call. All we are doing when we raise our hands is saying whether not we support the person who has been called to that position.

I know you like to tweak Scott, but in this instance, he is correct.

So please stop spreading the dishonest verbiage.

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KC Black stated -

“Just tired of it. Doesn’t look good nor make sense. In an era where we are seeing more and more leave the church for whatever reason, we should be more active in helping those who desire to stay, stay. Instead of chasing them away out of fear. Just sends the wrong message IMO.”

I am sorry that you are “tired of it” but I think there are more people who are tired of the Dehling’s out there. They guy isn’t about doubts and questions, he is about leading people astray and deceiving. So tell us whose work he is doing… he isn’t searching for the truth and helping others to do the same, he is searching for the lies and trying to get others to do the same.

I am also sorry that you don’t think the church “looks good” doing some of the things they do but that is the risk you take when you choose the right. Sometimes it doesn’t “look good” to others. The stance against gay marriage doesn’t look good, women having the priesthood doesn’t look good, etc. I’m willing to support what is right as opposed to what “looks good” and you should too.

It’s too bad that you think “more and more are leaving the church” because if that is true then I feel bad for those people. They are making a mistake. THEY should be more active in helping themselves to stay and they would if they truly desired as much. Lastly, it isn’t about “fear” and chasing people away KC, it is about choosing and doing the right thing. It’s called standards and raising the banner of truth. It is about sending the RIGHT message IMO. It is about obedience and light and truth.

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There is a reason to not sustain people. It is very limited, but the direction I’ve received is that same that I will put below in a quote. I was told that when you find somebody who votes in disagreement with the new calling, you’re suppose to seek that no vote out and find out why they voted no. If the reason is not a true worthiness issue, then nothing is done. If it is a worthiness issue, then something may be done about it.

When Should a Person Cast a Negative Vote?
“I have no right to raise my hand in opposition to a man who is appointed to any position in this Church, simply because I may not like him, or because of some personal disagreement or feeling I may have, but only on the grounds that he is guilty of wrong doing, of transgression of the laws of the Church which would disqualify him for the position which he is called to hold.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3:124.)

1 Like
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thanks Russ… that is what I was trying to say, you did a much better way…

By the way, when I posted this …
This message popped up…
"Let others join the conversation
This topic is clearly important to you – you’ve posted more than 21% of the replies here.
Are you sure you’re providing adequate time for other people to share their points of view, too?

SERIOUS WEBMASTER? if you have not noticed, your participation of users have drastically gone down since you made the change… I think you need to re-evaluate your thoughts… don’t you?

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stop dominating all the conversations Floyd, let others join in. :slight_smile:

LOL!!!

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I saw that once too. I was a bit taken back by the comment.

And you’re welcome too!

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Not true, if even one person opposes the leadership talks with them privately after to talk about it. If it is a valid reason to leadership, the person is released from the calling, same with priesthood ordination sustaining. The sustaining vote is not a rubber stamp.

To his point, if the entire congregation opposed it, no way they go through with the calling as it has nothing to do with what the lord wants, it has to do with what does the congregation know that the leader who called this person does not know.

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Reading comprehension problems? Floyd laid it out perfectly, pretty much what you are saying. But, unlike you, he’s using 3rd party information to back up his point that only in cases of worthiness would the calling from the Lord be taken back. And, Floyd did not say anything about the sustaining vote being a rubber stamp. On the contrary. He said just the opposite when he said it’s not a “vote” like you think. That it is each of us supporting the Lord’s calling to a brother or sister. Once again from Church authority, " In “The Guide to the Scriptures” here is what sustaining votes are: “To pledge support to those serving in general and local Church leadership positions.” It’s not an election. If everyone raised their hands “no” then the calling is still not invalidated. Would the Bishop or authority issuing the call re-evaluate the call? Sure. He’d bring people in and find out what the problem is. I’ve never seen more than one person raise their hand against a sustaining vote.

Your statement that if the entire congregation opposed a calling that it has nothing to do with what the Lord wants is ludicrous! We are not a “bottom up” lead Church like the Baptists. We are a top down from the Lord lead Church. If the Lord wants a person to be called, and the congregation doesn’t want it, time to get a new congregation…

1 Like
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kcblack,

I agree with you.

To say that a person that thinks, and reasons, and questions, is inferior to a person that accepts blindly on faith, without works, without investigation, and perhaps without looking for reason, is like saying that all books should be burned that do not promote that which we want the reader to believe.

I think that a person that has many questions, that have not been yet answered to his/her satisfaction, if given enough time to find those answers, may come out of the process a better and more understanding person than those that don’t. I am sure that there are those that find comfort in not needing to go through that process. I am also sure that there are those that need to go through that process.

I believe, that a person will know if it is time to leave the Church, if he/she has too many unanswered questions, and that person will not need to be told and that person, will not need to be excommunicated, unless he/she has broken the law or has become an embarrassment to the Church with his/her actions.