Final 4, who wins it all?

What! JB and P not perfect???

I like the front runners on the basis of DEI. They are the most ethnically diverse and their starting fives more accurately reflect the national population demographics than the two southern teams. The Purdue center is half Chinese. Can’t root for NC St. because their best player is a fat guy with a ponytail. Can’t root for knuckle dragging southerners from Alabama.

DEI? Are you talking about Women’s Basketball? The guys playing on their teams? Well, I haven’t seen that this year except maybe in the WNBA. I wasn’t sad about Illinois either.
Spot on about UCLA. Alcindor and Walton for sure. The Marcus Johnson era as well.

No I don’t. That was a different era and time. Can’t even start to compare the situations, etc. It’s like comparing Caitlyn Clark to Pete Maravich, which a lot of people seem to want to do. UConn had a few losses, including a 20 pointer vs. Creighton and several close wins during the season but not during the tournament. I guess that’s just because they are so dominant when it comes to tournament games but not so much during the regular season… so what is the difference? Their coach knows what to do? The players are just so good they step it up in the tournament? I don’t believe so. I’ve seen how the officials call their games and it gives them an advantage every time. I guess everyone has conveniently forgotten about the east coast bias that has been so often mentioned in the past? Doesn’t apply to UConn I guess, they aren’t on the east coast? They don’t play in the Big East? Haha…

I stand by what I said. Everyone can believe whatever they want to believe. At least for now.

Everyone knows that post season play is a different animal. It’s a new season and players take it more seriously because it doesn’t last 82 games. That’s always been the case. Same with college. Especially with the one and done aspect of College post seasons. It’s not best out of 5 or 7 like in the NBA. Much different. How can you not know this?

I know all of that.

Doesn’t change my opinion of what is taking place.

My eyes don’t deceive me. You might try to, but I see through your nonsense all the time.

If you know all that then you should know you should drop the dramatics because it’s not what you know. :grin:

Two questions for you:

  1. When was the last time you read the NCAA Rule and Case books to understand the “current”
    rules of college basketball?
  2. When was the last time you watched a UCONN game and focused only on the calls that went against UCONN?

For #1, many fans “think” they know the rules, but very few of them actually do. That includes former players of said games. Rules are not the same in High School as they are in college. The same for the difference between college and the Pro’s. The case book is the most important one to read, because they give scenarios of plays then explain “how” you should call it., That is what most officials use as their basis for making calls.

For the record, I am not saying officials did or did not favor a team, I didn’t watch the game, so I cannot say with certainty. But my experience with officials is always the same, they are human, they make mistakes, and sometimes they make bad decisions. But they try their best to be consistent and fair.

I will also add this note: I know from sources in the PAC12, that the conference did indeed tell their officials to “favor” a PAC12 team when they played non-conference games.

This puts the official in a tough spot because they want to work at the highest level, but they also want to be good officials.

For #2 - I have always believed that people see what they want to see. That is why “Eyewitness” accounts are not reliable in criminal cases. One person saw X while the person next to them saw “Y”.

Same in sports, I can watch a game with my cousin, and he swears up and down that the officials missed a call, while I am watching and see that there was no rule being broken.

I am not saying you are wrong Jim, I am just suggesting that maybe it is not as bad as you think it is.

The 2nd to last paragraph is how Jim and I watch games. He’s made up his mind before the game starts if office will be for one team more than another. And if it seems they won’t call grabbing fouls, then you have to make your 3 point percentages for winning, make your shots at the rim and make your free throws.

I didn’t see the entire UConn/Illinois game. I was rooting for UConn all the way so if they were getting some officiating favoritism I didn’t see it. I happen to like them. I like the way they play the game. I became a fan last year and it has carried over to this year. I doubt I will perceive any bias as somebody who has become somewhat of a fan. That said I am only a casual fan since BYU is the only team I am passionate about.

Back in the day when UCLA dominated i couldn’t stand them because they took all the drama out of the NCAA tournament. In my mind they got all the close calls. I could have seen it that way because I wanted them to lose, but in hindsight they always had a roster stacked with All Americans and future pros and they only had competitive tournament games on a few occasions during the time they won 7 in a row and 10 in 12 years. I found the Wooden era boring and to me the NCAA tournament became interesting again after Wooden retired. I don’t think we will ever see a dynasty like that again.

It’s no surprise here that what a person looks for he or she will find. Reminds me of people who say they will study out what the missionaries teach them by reading only negative literature. If you want to find bias with officials, just look for every little thing that could be questionable against the team you are rooting for. Or, it’s your mission to prove that officials do their very best to be bias for or against one team over the other. Then, you mainly only see what you are looking for. Call it normalcy bias or law of attraction, it will dominate a person. There are other issues like how does the crowd affect officials?
I know one of Jim’s pet accusations is at beginning of games or halves. He knows that players sometimes start off slow and miss things they should be doing better. But, officials actually have the same issue. It takes them sometimes a few minutes to get better focused in the game as well. They are only human and not perfect. I know when Jim first refereed freshman and JV games that in my games he’d run up and down the court for entire game only calling traveling calls. He couldn’t see the slaps on the wrists and the other fouls going on. The other ref had to do all of that. He claims he got better and was given high approval later on in varsity games. I don’t know because I stopped coaching before that would have happened.

The only officiating I ever did was a few church games and only because the stake had a rule at the time that each ward had to supply officials for games they weren’t involved in, otherwise they couldn’t have a team. Officiating church games was such a pain it was the only way they could get anybody to do it. I think I did it twice. I guess I did ok. There weren’t any fights and I saw a few in church basketball over the years and it was usually because too much physical play was allowed. If somebody got knocked down or run over I would blow the whistle. If there was an obvious hack I blew the whistle. Sometimes I wasn’t sure if a play was a block or a charge but if a guy was driving and the defender was knocked down I blew the whistle and then made a judgment on whether he had established position. The only thing worse than officiating church basketball is umpiring little league baseball. The little league games I umpired went fast when I was behind the plate. Everybody struck out. If the ball was between the head and ankles it was a strike. In the mid to late
sixties there was a very big strike zone in the majors and that’s how I called a game. I wanted it over with as soon as possible. It wasn’t fun and the pay was about a dollar a game if I remember right, maybe two. I am exaggerating but my games were fast with lots strikeouts.

Even the professional officials probably have the same kind of stress and pre-game butterflies that players have. I wouldn’t want their job. I suspect the vast majority of them are fair but i am sure there are some corrupt ones as well, and a few biased ones as well.

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This is the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever read. If I wasn’t a decent person I’d call you a liar but I won’t do that. I don’t even remember refereeing games that you coached. In fact I don’t think I did. I have no idea what you are talking about because if I officiated a St. Bonny game I don’t remember it which means it was pretty low end and inconsequential. Your memory of my partner having to make all the calls except travelling is nonsense. Why don’t you ask the varsity officials who came early to evaluate my games how well I did? I moved up pretty quickly for a guy who was as bad as you are saying I was. Officials start their first year with the low end boys and girls games so if I did one of your games it was surely one of those. So you are getting first and second year refs doing your games and I guarantee I was better than most of them. I don’t have to claim anything, it’s the truth. But then again that isn’t something that matters to you so it won’t really stick. I only officiated for three years so, once again, I have no idea what you are talking about. I did some varsity games because one of the varsity officials wouldn’t show up on occasion and the one who did would ask me to do the varsity game with him. He didn’t ask the other frosh or JV ref to stay. I know, you probably don’t believe that but at this point I don’t really care what you believe.

And just to add a note to this reply, you guys act like I don’t understand basketball or the game or the rules or whatever. Why do you think that? Because you don’t agree with my perspective and opinion? Floyd asks me if I know the rules and have I read the rulebook. Honestly, please tell me what big rule changes they have made that make the game so much different today than it was 10, 20 or 50 years ago? Yeah, they have 3 point lines, a little circle for block/charge calls in the key, different line up spots for free throw shots, etc. but the same basic rules still apply that have always applied. The problem is that they have decided to call or not call some as opposed to others. Travelling is a good example. It happens more frequently and isn’t called than it used to. Big guys down low are shuffling their feet, changing or moving their pivot foot (you know the left or right foot you establish that can’t be moved when you the ball) and other things. I’m not going to try and explain what I saw again because none of you listen or consider the possibility that I might be accurate with what I am seeing and saying so what is the point?

Like I said, I will be shocked if UConn doesn’t win it all again, including against Purdue. The fix is on and it’s rigged for them. If somebody beats them it will be because the other team played their best game of the season and UConn didn’t and the officials were exposed They key factor will be whether or not those officials were fair and objective both ways and nobody knows that until the game is played.

Lastly, I had no interest in Illinois beating UConn, for the same reasons Aro stated earlier. The reinstated a rapist to their team and I don’t really like the way they play the game. I was actually fine with UConn winning, once again for the same reasons Aro mentioned. I just didn’t like the way they were pampered and coddled when the game got tight late in the first half and to start the second half. That was my only gripe. Why not allow the game to be officiated fairly and objectively? UConn was going to win the game anyway because they were the better team and they played better. The refs made it easy for them and they won by 30. If that’s the kind of basketball you guys like then I guess you are happy. I like fairness and objectivity and let the players decide who wins the game. I apologize for being a purist, I thought there were more fans like me here on Cougarfan. I guess not.

Please don’t text me or make comments about games you are watching that I might be watching too, including BYU games. It’s not worth all the drama to me. Enjoy the games the way you like to see them played.

Wow! I thought you refereed for 10 or 20 years. Only 3 years? That I did not know. And you do know what traveling is for sure. You are also correct that traveling has been occurring for decades. We played some games against future college and NBA players too. A few that played at UCLA and Indiana. Now, they got away with some feet shuffling and dragging their pivot foot. But mostly did it properly without traveling.

Time to relax a bit. No football or basketball. Even watching volleyball is over for BYUTV . It’s boring time of the year. So, a little razzing is justified until September. The 3 year expert on refereeing :grin:

I would do it for free as a referee
Only blind guys can do this job, right?

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Fun game to watch. Some very good coaching going on. I was surprised how well NC St turned over Edey most of the game and how well they used Burns as a passing center to try and get Edney out of the middle. In the second half, Purdue’s thoroughbreds came through and put the game out of reach.

Bama stayed close in the Uconn game by hitting 78% of their 3s in the 1st half. In the end. UConn’s fire power was too much for a one-dimensional Bama.

Final on Monday
I would be fine with either Purdue or UConn winning, they are both deserving and well coached. Purdue because Edey came back for another run and I’m all about players that think team 1st over $$.

For me, this game comes down to the Matchup between Edey and Clingan. They said 7’2 Clingan is 280 but that can’t be right, he is too skinny and I think Edey will move him down low. (I was surprised how many TOs NC St got out of Edney, by the way)

I still have UConn winning, their fire power is WILTING, I say that when UConn had to rest Clingan and Bama ahead or tied. UConn played small ball and actually got up 8 while Clingan rested. Spencer, their point is rock solid, their highest rated player but I think 6’8 So. Karaban has the most NBA upside.

UConn’s player rating has 4 players with a 4.5 or better. Purdue has 2, Edney is rated 7.8, the highest I have ever seen in College BBall. Their point, Smith is the other highly rated player but he had a rough night vs. NC St.

UConn will want to get out and RUN, they want the game to be in the 80s, Purdue will want to slow the game down, perfectly happy to have a game in the 60s. At any rate, these are the 2 best teams in college BBall

The spread has UConn by 2.8.

You called Edey by the name Edney twice. I think you have a special affinity for UCLA in spite of the comments by Aro earlier. It isn’t a typo because the N is nowhere near the E or D on the keyboard so that is what I am going with… you secretly love UCLA basketball and the greatest coach in the history of the game, John Wooden. The wizard of Westwood.

As for the final, who cares? The fix was in for UConn to repeat and waa laa, they beat Bama by double digits in spite of the 50% 3 point shooting. Honestly, Alabama had no chance and everyone knows it. We will see what happens in the final with the two “best” teams, haha. I won’t dispute that but I need to add that both teams have the whiniest, complainingest coaches in all of college basketball. That fact speaks volumes about where the game is today.

All I see when I watch games is whining coaches, players who raise their arms and look at the replays on the big screen to prove they were fouled on every play, officials who have to coddle, explain and justify every whistle and a game that has lost its appeal. It’s really too bad.

In my class with Frank Arnold, the question of coaching and working the referees came up. A student asked how it was working with a coach who would mostly sit in his seat and not get in the ears of the referees. Arnold chuckled and said Wooden was the referees worst nightmare. He was a ventriloquist as he would sit there smiling and cursing between his teeth at the referees every time they passed by.

You just can’t see the game without the conspiracies. I don’t agree with Fish on everything. But, he’s right about the top teams and top players this year. Your comments fully suggest the games were fixed. You see what you want to see. Even if it’s not there. :grin:

I posted at 3am hahaha I did love John Wooden. I had a good talk about him the other day along with Bobby Knight. Probably the 2 greatest CB coaches of all time. truly blessed to have called Bobby a friend.

I don’t feel that way. I had watched Bama 3 times, knew they would go as far as their hot shooting could take them. The game was super close for 30 minutes. Super surprised they hung on for that long. UConn has 4 NBA guys, Bama might have 1. UConn’s bench could start for Bama.

This is by far the most interesting final since possibly Ewing vs. Olajawon.