Gap is widening

Utah had 5 players drafted. We had zero. Over the past 4 years, Utah has had 19 players drafted. We’ve had 3 (Williams, Warner, and Takitaki). This is not looking good. The talent gap seems to be getting bigger between the two programs.

Or maybe the NFL decision makers are bigots. We outplayed Utah and that means our seniors were better than Utah’s. At least, as good.

How many of the drafted players are on the defensive side of the ball from the Utes? Difference in coaching. …

Or maybe the NFL decision makers are bigots. We outplayed Utah and that means our seniors were better than Utah’s. At least, as good.

Yeah, does not look good. I think the money left BYU in the dirt.

Things we need now:
A great coach who surrounds himself with great coaches

To be in a conference and play for something

I feel like it is unfortunate that BYU is always compared to Utah but I guess that is something that will never end. I am glad that Utah is having success. I don’t feel like they are the same rival they used to be. I think BYU’s basketball program is way ahead of Utah’s but that doesn’t do much for this discussion. Utah has some good defensive coaching and they have built a good program and for that I congratulate them. The conference they play in is relatively mediocre for being “the conference of champions” like they claim but that is okay.

I don’t see it getting any better moving forward as Utah is a secular institution and football is all about money and entertainment. How BYU can compete with Utah in this environment is beyond me. I don’t see it happening. BYU will compete with the middle range of teams and make it to a bowl game the majority of the time. I think that is as good as it will be or get going forward.

I agree with Jim. This is the new normal. I still say the main reasons for Utah’s superiority over us in football are the honor code and academic standards. If we beat them in football in the next 5 years, it will be a miracle on par with the seagulls eating the crickets.

To answer T Hawk’s question, I found the info on Wikipedia. About 15 of 19 Utes drafted were on defense.

Oddly enough, BYU’s players seem to make more national NFL news than Utah’s lately, with the great play of Sorensen, Hill, and Van Noy. One NFL expert thought Van Noy should have been the Super Bowl MVP.

The most infamous thing a Ute has done was 2 years ago in the Minnesota Miracle where Diggs caught the pass to win the game. The safety coming over who blew it was a Ute.

Good research Larimer! I almost always think Jim is right on in his judgment. The way to the top for BYU football is a narrow one. We have to have the right coach and he has to be a great manager of coaches. Second, he and defensive and offensive coordinators have to be so satisfied with their professional credibility and credentials that they won’t bolt for more pay at a bigger program … this will require that they have made their money already and or are fine with turning down more money for the BYU atmosphere. Sitake might be a defensive stalwart but he can’t coach or lead coordinators very well. He is a very good guy and a good recruiter. But he is only a part of the solution. I think he might have the personality to be a part of top program but he has to have 2 great coordinators … under him. Or he needs to take over the DC responsibility and we need a new head coach. Personally I believe we need to put an emphasis on Sitake as leader of the defense. Then we need to go have a heart to heart with a guy who has plenty of money and wants a new challenge. Darrell Bevell is the key! Holmoe needs to go talk with him. Single most important thing he could do. Bevell won’t require lots of money to come to Provo. He is an offensive genius. Coaches who have made their name and money already and want a challenge to build an inventive program will bring BYU into serious P-5 contention.

Coaches who really know how to coach and can show they know NFL caliber talent and skills can get lots of players to come to BYU.

Pope and his staff are going to pull off a one and done in the next 4-5 years and it will break the Duke strangle hold on LDS athletes who are elite level NBA players. It is all in the coaching and recruiting.

I know. We didn’t beat Tennessee, USC or Boise. We just can’t win over big name schools and P5 conferences. I just don’t know what BYU is going to do…

Hopper, yes we do beat some good teams occasionally such as who you mentioned, at Wisconsin, Arizona, etc. But how on earth are we ever going to beat Utah? Let’s face it, most of us would rather beat Utah and lose to Tenn, USC, and Boise. Until we can beat our rival…and we lose a few games each year we should win…we are a disappointing program.

One reason because BYU’s entrance stance on athletic recruits is way too high when compared with other schools. But the worst reason BYU is falling behind Utah and other P-5 schools in recruitment is because BYU’sschedule is over all too high in football. Two to three P-5 teams on the schedule is more than enough. BYU cannot compete with P-5 teams is because of lack of depth and it’s lack of a conference tie in. Indy is not working well for BYU’s win-loss record.

And still people wonder why Kaufusi Transferred?

Part of the blame for BYU not producing “drafted” players falls on the head of Bronco Mendenhall as well. He publicly stated that he discouraged players from going into the NFL, instead focus on schooling. He never recruited some of the better talent “4 or 5 stars” because for some reason he disliked them (that is a proven fact by the way).

So Kalani comes in, with the cupboard pretty bare. No really “star” power except for Hill and Williams. I think he is now getting better recruits, who should be drafted in the next couple of years.

I do agree with both you and Jim about the coaching, especially on the defensive side. Grimes, I am warming up to, he seems to be a bit more willing to listen and learn from his mistakes. I like that he has four previous OC’s on staff (Sitake being the one with the best winning record, while at Weber State). I think there really was not much to look at when Williams and Hill left. Lot of internal issues, etc…

Just some thoughts about the subject.

Utah gets Linemen drafted, rarely do they get the limelight. BYU gets QBs, safeties and LBers drafted, all positions that Chicks dig…….any questions? hahahaha.

It saddens me to realize this, but I think BYU’s decline in sports is part of a larger decline of BYU in general. For me, the shine is off of the BYU apple, and I say that as a BYU graduate and the son of BYU graduates. The watering down of the religion curriculum, the fiasco with the different direction and shift with FARMS/Maxwell Institute, the fiasco with the honor code this spring, etc. are just tips of the iceberg.

The BYU I attended in the 90s is not the BYU of 2020. My son (on a mission currently) and my daughter (graduating this spring) have both gotten full ride scholarships to Northern Arizona, and I think they’re getting a better education and well-rounded experience there. It has a strong student ward and institute experience, is reasonably conservative (compared to ASU or UofA), and is in a more beautiful setting than Provo, even. Our son was a valedictorian with high ACT/SAT, and was only offered a half tuition at BYU (not including housing). It’s hard to turn down free.

The relatively new Seventy Peter Johnson was in our ward 20 years ago (counselor in the bishopric). He tried to get us to buy his house when he went to teach at BYU. Great guy, and we’re all proud of him! He told our current 2nd counselor’s wife that he wouldn’t send his kids to BYU, having taught there and taught at other places.

He was a real seeker. From New York, he spent time with Nation of Islam before joining the Church. He served his mission in Alabama, and played basketball for Southern Utah.

everything you say is true but……… It is all about the $$$ and will always be about the $$$.

I will tell all of you what my coaching friends say over and over: Bronco and Kalani have similar talent on the team, Bronco made the right plays when he had to, Kalani has not!. Bronco averaged 10 wins a season and GOT RUN OUT OF BYU. BYU fans are dilutional about BYU. We are not a P5, we don’t have near the P5 money to compete with and certainly not with Utah so we have to be creative. Every once in a while BYU does land a Tysom Hill and we get ranked. That is just reality.

For BYU to compete with Utah, we would have to lower standards or make exceptions for players, Pay top dollar for top coaches, and be playing in a P5 conference, that is our reality. So deal with it.

What do you mean about the watering down of the religion curriculum at BYU?

I thought that was a wierd comment. Unless he’s talking about gay stuff.

I think he is talking about BYU use to have a lot stronger “Religious” requirements back when he went to school, where as today, they don’t

CES and BYU have watered down the expectations and requirements for seminary, institute, and BYu religion classes (the change has gone hand-in-hand; it isn’t just BYU). Part of this is in response to challenges with Millennials/ Gen Z kids, but instead of exhorting them to rise up, the bar has simply been lowered. When we were in seminary, we had scripture mastery scriptures we were supposed to memorize and be able to find. These were vital, key scriptures that you need as a missionary, parent, and church leader — they are indispensable. The shift was to “doctrinal mastery.” Students now have to demonstrate that they know doctrines, but they no longer have to know where to find them. Yes, studying them is the whole point of seminary, but “pressure” to memorize and be able to find them is gone as an expectation. I think a lot of this is waving the white flag on devices; people who never read paper books and only read things on a phone have a much harder time, memory-wise, knowing exactly where to find things. They use key word searches, but can’t simply find it because they know where it is.

At BYU, the core religion classes were changed from “Book of Mormon, 1st half,” Book of Mormon, 2nd half," etc. to “Doctrines of the Book of Mormon.”

Instead of systematically studying the books, like we did (I had Reed Benson and Sister Lamb), the focus is more on “faith in the Book of Mormon,” “atonement in the Book of Mormon,” etc. Valuable, yes, of course, but a further drop in the general literacy and knowledge that comes from simply studying the books as a whole. It’s fragmented and disjointed.

The coup de tat at FARMS, and the morphing of the FARMS Review into the Mormon Studies Review is a separate thing. Instead of scholarship defending and bolstering the reality of ancient scriptures, the focus shifted to ecumenical scholarship that would be acceptable to a broad audience. It specifically avoids discussion of Mormonism’s truth claims now, because that upsets religious studies departments at other universities.