Apparently, so is getting walk-ons…
Not sure what the correct answer would be… but BYU admissions office does not make it any easier.
Which virtually eliminates any player who goes to college as a stepping stone to the NFL. I have read about how Miami did it for years, having TA’s take the tests etc. I’m sure many school wink at top recruits and say, “We’ll get you through, no problem”.
Getting into BYU is tough no matter how you look at it so my hat is off to all those players who came, stayed and graduated
This is part of a larger discussion on the economics of college sports. Honestly, my opinions fluctuate a lot on this still. Right now, I think the major college sports, the ones that make money, should be forced to view the players as employees first. So we hire you to play football and give you a salary. If you want, we’ll also offer you a deal on tuition, etc. But your being a student is after the fact. That would lend flexibility and honesty to the situation. So if a player came here, played 4 years but didn’t make the NFL, he can come back and use his Tuition deal to focus on school. Or do it in a more traditional way. My point is we should seek flexibility in the system for people who are all different.
I’m not saying we have to pay the men’s cross country team. Just the ones that generate serious revenue. And if schools can’t generate revenue with their football team, then we know who is and who isn’t top tier school and we draw those lines accordingly.
I’m sure I’m missing some subtleties but I view this as a working solution rather than a polished one. Besides, I’ve always thought it was weird to give them a scholarship to study when it’s really because they can play. This just feels like a more honest solution for walk ons and the system in general.
Floyd,
I hear what you are saying. Like you, the situation frustrates me.
On one hand, we do not want to cut or lower our standards,
while on the other hand, we don’t want to keep shooting ourselves in
the foot by making our standards even harder.
It seems like two issues are in direct conflict with each other.
We want our academics to be the best that they can become.
We also want our athletic department to be the best it could become.
I think that some people forget that the athletic department is part of the education
received at BYU.
I think that some people forget that sports is s very highly paid profession.
Along with that, we tend to forget that many are called, but few are chosen.
We need a balance in both the academics and the sports. One set of departments should
not hold back another set of departments from reaching their full potential.
Ron
Clausewitz,
Your honesty is refreshing. Your openness and ability to think beyond the status quo is a gift, not only to yourself but to all of us that are willing to take the chance on having an open mind. I commend you for your bravery. I like your ideas. Most importantly, you are leading us to some real new and very different ideas on how, eventually, we can all grow and achieve more. Thank you
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Well, I don’t know about that.
I’d love to see it change, but financial inertia is a powerful force. I think legal action will eventually force their hand, but until then, tough luck to the players. They get a raw deal.
Clausewitz
I am confused. Why would the powerful financial inertia force, not want to invest in something that would turn $750,000 bowl payouts into $17million pay outs, or $10 million TV contracts into $25 million contracts. Or, or, or. etc.
What possible legal action could help us be a P5 caliber team without paying the dues required to be a solid P5 team.
(The best coaches/the best athletes/ being not political/and non controversial/ and stop being hard to get along with.
Ron
Oh, I was unclear. I meant that the NCAA and universities in general do not have an incentive to change the status quo because they do nicely with it. The students would need to do some form of a legal change to make it happen.
As to your other points…they seem obvious to me and I agree with them. It’s a business. Put money in to get money out.
Thanks for your clarification Clausewitz
Please go into more detail regarding the legal aspects. I do not see any legal action in the works, nor to I advocate legal actions in order to get more money to do the job needed. Also I can see no legal action, nor would I advocate legal action to get us into any of the P5 conferences. Getting into a P5 conferences must be earned and not legislated. Very recent history suggest that we have not earned the right. Instead, while we have stood still, 16 other G5 teams have advanced and are now way ahead of us as far as earning their way into a P5 conference. As long as we feel that we are too good and too important to compromise anywhere on any issues, we will continue to be seen as too difficult to deal with.
I don’t think that the Honor Code has anything to do with it except that we like to use it as an excuse for not accomplishing that which we should be accomplishing. Also, you can not connivence me that our No Sunday Play has anything to do with it. When was the last time you have seen any college team team forced to play a game on Sunday? There are always options. But again, we love to use that as an excuse for or failures.
Instead of legal action, my hope is that those holding the purse strings will begin to see ,without such legal action, that a full stadium sell out at maximum prices per seat is better than a half full stadium at lowest prices.
I would hope that they will soon be able to see, two years from now, when our contract expires with ESPN that it will be harder to get that $10 Million dollar contract with them than it would be to get a $25 million dollar contract that we would be getting if we invested in the best coaches available, capable of attracting the best athletes, that together, the coaches and the athletes, could get us into a P5 conference that would give us those $25million TV Contracts.
The benefits keep piling up, like respect, if we once again become significant in football; Like $17 million bowl games instead of $750,000 - $1-1/4 Million dollar bowl games. Like vender rent at the stadium (maximum vs minimum); Like so many other intangibles.
It seems like we’re talking to different points here. I think I agree with what you’re saying. The legal action I’m talking about has to do with ALL NCAA athletes across all schools bringing legal suits that would change the financial landscape for recruiting which frankly might work well for us. I’m not sure though, nor am I a lawyer who could speak to the possible strategies. Within the last couple years the athletes at Northwestern attempted to force some sort of action as a way of going after the NCAA. Not sure on the details but I know they lost.
The reality is eventually the NCAA is going to break because someone will find a better way to get the money. The top schools will see fit to break away and form their own group or the courts might make a decision. Eventually the scheme as it is right now will break apart. That’ll be an interesting day.
Good post. BYU has admittance standards like Vanderbilt, Rice and Ivy League schools. Answer, no P-5 conference membership and no P-5 or New Year’s Six bowls.
I think BYU may need to look at like Stanford who also has high Academic standards and see how they get decent players…
Just a thought.
clausewitz,
Thanks for the clarification on the legal issues. You are correct. In my concussion, I indeed was off in a different direction.
With the issues which you present in the clarification post. I do agree with you, as usual. Thanks Ron
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Floyd,
As usual, I totally agree with you. In additional to Stanford, one might add USC, Ohio State, Alabama, Florida State, Notre Dame, Boston College, Baylor, TCU, and Syracuse. Some times we act like we think we are the only ones with high academic standards and strong honor codes.
More and more fans are finding these old excuses for not achieving, nothing more than fake news excuses. The real problem is that we, as a Univeristy/Church/Fans are not fully committed to funding the programs that will make us successful.
fish,
I have alway had a problem with those that do not recognize professional sports as a valid profession.
Some students go to college to become teachers and take the required classes to get certificated by the state.
Some students take classes to become CPA’s, Attorneys, Social Workers, top scientist or Engineers, and they take the required classes to get a job in their chosen profession.
What is wrong having a 4-5 star gifted athlete, going to college to take the required classes, play the required games, get the required exposure to get into the profession of their dreams that will pay them far more doing their jobs for 10+ years that will pay them far more than the highest paid of the other said professions working 30 + years?
Not sure Alabama, Baylor or Florida State would be good places to look…
Although they have good teams, they definitely do not have a honor code anywhere near BYU, in fact at those schools, they have all been investigated for sexual misconduct, theft, bribery, recruiting violations, etc.
Notre Dame has one that is pretty close, not sure about BC or Syracuse.
I have heard on sports radio, that with the increased academic standards being set at BYU, it is no longer possible to recruit JC players. I do not know for sure if that is true, just what is being reported.
Not sure what the answers are, I know when I got off my mission in 1978, I could attend BYU because I had served a mission, regardless of my GPA. Now that is not the case, the Church has put stronger academic requirements in order to keep BYU student population at a manageable range (Personal Opinion here). Which I happen to agree with, the problem with those standards is that it eliminates a lot of LDS/Non LDS players who may struggle with school work. They may have high moral values, but simply do not meet the academic requirements.
Like I said, it is a tough balancing act for BYU. Do we allow the players like Jim McMahon and try to help them improve their skills in Education, while exciting the fans of the sports team or do we stick with the high academic standards and hope those that meet those requirements want to come to BYU?
Floyd,
I always enjoy reading your post. You are (one of the most), if not the most, open minded posters on this site. You truly see both sides of each position. There are a couple others that are also enjoyable reading for the same reasons,
I agree with you in what you say about certain Universities that have had their problems with moral issues, (sexual and non sexual, but moral).
Penn State comes to mind, as does Baylor, SMU, and several others, including BYU back in the Crowton and Mendenhal/Rose eras. I also believe that in each of these cases, it is not because the Mission, (honor code), was not moral, but because certain individuals, (faculty/students) did not follow the mission (honor code) plan. As soon as possible, in each case, the problem was corrected, but with no guarantee that it can’t happen again.
My point is that we can’t use the No Sunday play and the Honor Code as excuses for not fixing the real problem. We can not expect the very best coaches to work for much less money, just because we are Mormons.
My other issue is regarding the new higher standards.
We now have BYU Provo, BYU Idaho, and BYU Hawaii. I am among the biggest advocates of having very high standards that will give us the creditability of say, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Harvard et all the respected Universities. Perhaps, we should select one of these 3 Universities or create a 4th for this purpose. Maybe we use one of the other 3-4 Universities
to have standards equal to those that we want to be a part of for sports. Use the other 1-2 for the over flow of students that want to go to BYU but don’t have the grade for the highest standard for academics, or the most talent for the sports
And yes, Like you and all the others on this board, I can think of more reasons why this idea would not work than i can think of reasons why it would work. My hope is that someone smarter than any/all of us, can hitch hike on to this idea and figure out a way that all students that want to try to achieve at something, be it art, music, dance, the humanities, academic or sports, can have a chance to be educated in the field that they could most likely be successful with.