Hey Jim, just another mormon on mormon Utah scam for your enjoyment


that is about all I can say.

For only $400 you can be the most fantastic missionary in the history of the church.


You know for someone who professes to be LDS, Temple worthy and lives Christ standards… you sure come up short on not unrighteous Judging of others.

But what do I know? right… I am just bad Mormon… Oh wait,… a Utah Mormon.

Oh… So Arizona does not have problems?

Or California

The “california” link involved a number of different people and mentioned a few other scams that are similar in nature. Interesting that most of those mentioned were from Utah.

But that really doesn’t matter. The reason most of these things happen there is that Utah has a lot of mormons there.

No need to be so ultra sensitive about it Floyd.

My parents have moved out of their home of 35 years and are living in the trailer park now. The last 3 months have been intensely stressful. He had planned on using the money that was stolen from him to pay off his home and retire in it but he was not able to fulfill that hope and goal because mormons living in Utah stole his hopes, dreams and money.

Sorry, just speaking the truth.

Of course AZ and other states have some issues with it, it’s a Mormon issue. There just happens to be a larger % in utah so they have the highest % of mormon on mormon fraud.

$400 for a two day self improvement course? That is cheap. Many improvement courses are about $1000 per day! Getting training to improve communication, leadership, vision, and persevere. What is wrong with that?

I see no scam here. Do they take the money and not provide training, speakers, and learning opportunities? How are they bilking people out of their money?

Most folks as return missionaries are more than happy to give their advice and wisdom to those preparing to go on a mission. Is that a scam? What a few RMs taught a class in their homes once a month on how to be an effective missionary. Would that be a scam? What if it was taken to a conference room, excellent presentations were given, exercises done, speakers brought in, etc. You know, a professional methodical approach using some of the best RM wisdom as well as techniques from motivational instructors and it was free? Does that make it a scam? What if they charged for it? Is it now a scam?

I’ve got a class that I will only charge $200 for. I start off by explaining you should read the Book of Mormon every day. You should also pray and go to church. When you are done with these things you should fulfill your calling and do your home teaching. Don’t forget to fast and pray at least once a month. If you do these things you’ll realize the Holy Ghost teaches for free and paying money to be taught this is crap. I am pretty sure Joseph Smith did not charge a cover charge for the school of the prophets. I know I am from Wyoming, otherwise known as the “jack mormon state”, but I am pretty sure General Conference is still free as well. What is the going rate for a temple recommend these days? Are those still free too? Anyone who thinks they can teach you something you can’t learn in one of these other ways is absolutely scamming you so yes, it is a scam.

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The “jack mormon state”… :smile:

I agree with your comments. No reason to give somebody else money to teach you how to be a good missionary. How annoying would it be to have a companion who paid money and attended and now thinks he is the best missionary ever…

Temple recomends used to be free, they now can be had for 10% of your increase but some overpay at 10% net salary or even gross annual salary.

Wyoming is still behind the times obviously, we still get asked ALL the standard temple recommend interview questions, not just if we pay our tithing. Has anyone else heard of this fast offering thing? I’ve been paying that for years but it sounds like the church scammed me again. Oh that pesky President Eyring and his convincing General Conference talks.

From the Article: “When someone preys upon the members of a congregation or community in order to get personal gain, it is a reprehensible betrayal of confidence, and its perpetrators are rightfully subject to criminal prosecution.”

It should be clear that when someone preys (illegally with intent to harm) upon the members of a congregation or community…" That’s what it means to “prey.” They are not being honest in their dealings. But, then again, how many insurance agents sell whole life, universal life when they could give them level term and invest separately doubling their return and doubling their coverage. And, they know it. They do it for the increase pay which is substantial. The Church use to sell whole life, universal life through Beneficial Life. Is this the same thing? I would say no. Because, the customer does get something out of it unless the universal life policy blows up do to falling interest rates and increase mortality charges. So, even in the “legal business world” there is room to watch out for improper business people.

I don’t think that’s what they are saying. But, let’s face it, preparation of any kind certainly helps. And, if they are doing this on their own time spending money the Church may not be willing to pay for, why not? Not sure what your beef is?

These people don’t stop with just Mormons. They do the same things in other churches too.

Sounds like BYU and the religion program. Is that a scam preparing people to know more about the Gospel, missionary work, the scriptures and so on? No. I agree. $1,000 is cheap with some self-improvement gurus.

Disagree. If the Church doesn’t sponsor the program, why is it a scam? The Church is allowing other publishers to publish the Book of Mormon and charge a lot for the books where at Wards you can get them for free. The people aren’t claiming to be ministers or doing it as part of the ministry. It’s a self-improvement course. And, yes, kids and seniors can get all that information for free. But, not necessarily the confidence and self-improvement needed to help them through their fears. I see nothing wrong with helping those do this. BYU isn’t free, is it?

I don’t think that would happen. But, for those who can benefit from the course, why not? I can think of several missionaries we’ve had out here in our neck of the woods that would have benefited from this. I don’t see the Church saying it’s a bad thing?

So, do you think the Lord is mad at the Brethren for making it mandatory to be a full tithe payer to enter into the Temple? Should the Brethren be more compassionate in this area? Are you willing to clean and maintain the buildings and their grounds for free? Or, are you willing to help pay for the Temples along with the new Ward and Stakes around the world? We use to actually pay in our budgets for those things, along with tithing and fast offerings.

I grew up with the Schallenbergers and my dad was in a bishopbric with the father. Both are great people. I have never said they were doing anything deceitful or criminal. What I am saying is you don’t need to spend money on classes to learn how to be a better missionary or whatever aspect of the gospel you are looking to improve on. I believe the laborer is worth of his hire but is there anything these four gentleman can teach someone that they couldn’t learn in the temple or through prayerful study of the scriptures? The answer is no.

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Exactly Clay.

Couldn’t agree with you any more than I already do.

Pretty soon we are going to get hit up for paid seminars on being worthy of the celestial kingdom…

I just don’t like the approach… “prepared to serve” academy.

Actually, I’m a convert. The missionaries that had the ability to reach me were those that could relate with me. Without that, I wasn’t in a position to allow the spirit in. Learning about personalities and leadership skills certainly doesn’t hurt. Those are skills that can be learned. And, I believe they use scripture and prayer. If parents want this I see no harm.