To answer Ron’s questions 2-4, I do not think we should play P5 schools if we are not a P5 Conference. Most of the time, it’s a physical mismatch. We don’t have the speed, talent, or explosiveness to hang.
I just don’t see BYU ever being invited to a P5 Conference. The world is getting more wicked, schools are becoming more and more liberal, less tolerant of BYU, there’s more hate, people are easily offended, and Satan is happily cheering it all on. In the future, we might struggle to find opponents to schedule because of all of this liberalness and religious discrimination.
We used to be able to hang, and even beat, P5 schools in the past, but I’m afraid that the gap is widening to where this will be more and more difficult. Offenses and defenses have evolved to the point where I wonder if our golden age Cougar teams would have been able to hang with modern power teams.
If we need to eventually drop down a division, or if the G5 need to form their own division, I’m okay with that. I know that a lot of fans would only be fans if we were D1. They would quit following BYU altogether if we dropped down, or the G5 formed its own division. I wouldn’t.
Not to be critical, but the problem I believe started back in 2001 when the BOT trustees hired Bronco, and changed Football to be a “Missionary Tool” rather than a football team.
We started recruiting more players with lower “stars” to make sure that BYU does not get a black eye.
Yes, we had 10 win seasons, but the majority of those were against lesser teams.
I am hoping Kalani will change direction soon… because with the right schema, I think BYU can become a power once again.
I think we declined with Val Hale and Rondo Fehlberg. I liked Coach Crowton, but he didn’t have institutional control. I liked Mendenhall and Anae, but was glad to move on to what I thought was a higher ceiling. I have high expectations for Sitake and Detmer, but we may be reaching “be careful what you wish for.”
Remember the doldrums of the mid to late 1980s (Bob Jensen, Steve Lindsley, Sean Covey)? We could still move the ball and score, though. But when Ty Detmer blazed on to the scene, it was breathtaking. I’m not sure whether Koy Jr. or the other Detmer (Dinkleman) or someone else can be a “gamer” hero, but we need somebody. And I’m not sure that somebody is currently in the program.
This offense is terrible. I’m expecting to see us have trouble getting first downs again tonight (I hope I’m wrong).
Wow, another fumble at start of 2nd half giving the ball to Aggies at 22 yard and they score 3.
When are we going stop those silly TO’s?
If Koy can’t get it done will Tanner come back or who is the 4th string? This is pretty sad game after Hoge went down.
Hard to watch QBs come in and can’t pass. They can’t understand coverages. What have they been doing during practices? Interceptions and fumbles along with bad, bad penalties. We were still in the game ready to run the ball in and two players hold. That would have kept us within a field goal. Big difference.
To me Mangum lost it when he was put as second string in 2016. The 2015 year was his season, and when they sat him in 2016 he lost his confidence. We can blame the coaching staff in my opinion for sitting Tanner in 2016 until Taysom got hurt again. As good an athlete as Taysom Hill was BYU should have used Tanner Mangum as the starting quarterback in 2016. Instead they started Hill over Mangum and it lead to Mangum losing his self confidence. Too me, Taysom Hill could have made a great running back and or receiver.
Floyd: Where do you think BYU can be a powerhouse in football again? I don’t think it is as an independent with a front end loaded schedule. Not the way BYU now has many more returned missionaries and the missionary age is younger. It takes a full year or more for most missionaries to regain their football strength and game savvy.
I don’t think BYU can compete in a P-5 conference initially. With with the HC and the missionary situation it would take several years for BYU to recruit and hold onto P-5 type players. That is IF BYU can ever get into a P-5 conference. Maybe Kilianni can improve this team with three or four more years of recruiting. But as 2017 unfolds will better players want to come to play for BYU.
We will be very fortunate to have a 7-6 record with all that has unfolded this season.
Good post Rubicon. To me BYU would fit better in a conference like the American Athletic or some new conference or like you say some other kind of division. I agree with your assessment of P-5 division players and plays. It has evolved more into a professional type of play. That does not fit BYU, not so long as we stay with the same missionary program and Honor Code. Not that we should stop either one. This is what helps define BYU and our mission as a school.
I agree with your post Craig. To me BYU needs to lessen the schedule, maybe play one or two P-5 teams. Heck, we can’t even beat Utah for the last seven years. We hae a tough time competing with Utah State and other G-5 teams. I doubt seriously if BYU will ever get into a P-5 conference too. The world has changed.
I echo much of what my learned little brother wrote, except that I don’t think we will struggle to fill our schedules. Right now BYU is a big payday and an easy W, and teams will be lining up to kick our A&& on ESPN primetime for $2million a game. I was hoping we would join the American conference a few years ago when they expanded–they would have loved to have BYU. This is the worst BYU team I have seen since Bob Jensen and Sean Covey were stumbling around the field pretending to be D1 QBs. We are COMPLETELY overmatched at almost EVERY position except DL and Warner. I still can’t believe a D1 FS bit on PA as bad as #23 did on 2nd and 10 and let a slow TE run a seam route and get 8 yards behind the FS. That play alone shows horrific coaching and a complete lack of discipline on the field. Don’t even get me started on guys not covering the ball with both hands after first contact…geesh, my 8th graders know that…
Floyd: I like what you or somebody had to say about Marc Wilson and Doug Scovil. My guess is that BYU doesn’t have the athletes to play the pro scheme offense. Detmer knows what he is ding, but it takes, from what I have heard on BYU SN that it takes at least six games for a team to go though a change in offense. If that is the case, when will BYU have a quarterback who plays six games in 2017 without getting hurt. How can this BYU team compete without losing key players like QB’s? It is obvious by September 29th we have lost two Qb’s to serious injury and who knows what comes next after our loss to Utah State tonite. Do we have the depth to play three P-5’s in a row? How about five P-5’s. We aren’t up to it.
sIn 1979, a young upstart coach named Lavell Edwards beat the premier team that year named Texas A&M.
He did not do it with star powered recruits, nor more talented players. in fact most of those players were hardly recruited.
how did he do it?
he hired a man named Dewey that developed a scheme that allowed the talent he had to blossom. later on, Doug Scovil took over and that is BYU Glory days…
I believe that can happen again, but the key to that success is not hiring inexperienced coaches, like Kalani did.
Lavell picked hard nosed coaches who demanded perfection and rode their players, while Lavell smoothed the ruffled feathers.
IF and that is a big IF, Kalani wants to bring back those days, he needs to hire the same type coaches.
I would not doubt if there are going to be some coaches are let go after this year.
You mean 1 or 2 top Tier P5 like Ohio St., LSU, etc and additional 3 or 4 Lower P5 like Vandi, Rutgers, Oregon St, etc. Yeah, that would be better. We haven’t seen playing those lower P5 schools and why is that? And keep playing those good AAC schools for some October and November.
Boise St is okay but Utah State.
Laval Edwards, was great, not only because he said and did everything that was great, dignified, and respectful to all, including, fans, players, coaches, teams, and conferences, and he did so without lecturing to them. (One exception when he said that he would rather lose in Wyoming and live in Provo, than to win in Wyoming, but have to live there). He was respected everywhere he went. He was a great man and well as a great coach.
He was extremely successful, because he dared to be different, He changed the system that was not working. He brought in the passing game. Until all the other teams caught on and indeed copied Laval, he made the Cougars among the King pins if indeed not the king pin. This all came about due to him changing things.
Every since that Laval time, no real significant changes have been made at Cougarville. We may or may not be just as good as we use to be. The problem is, we have not kept up with the changes. Other teams have made changes and got better, We have not an am not.
“Time to recruit and reevaluate the coordinators on both sides of the ball. We simply have no playmakers. There isn’t a NFL player on this roster who is getting playing time… Maybe none at all.”
First of all, We have a Heisman Trophy winner with 14 years of NFL experience, that was said by Brett Farve to be about the best coach he has had, while Ty Detmer was his back up. He is our QB coach and OC. With all the restrictions we have, how can we expect to have a better QB OC coach.
Our Defense is not all that bad considering how bad our offense has been keeping the defense on the field so much.
Our wide receiver coach, Ben Cahoon, was among the very best that we have ever had at BYU and his long career in the Canadian League that says he was one of the best WR’s ever to play in that league, must have some value to us. I am puzzled as to why he has not been able to teach our present WR’s that which he, Cahoon, does so well himself.
I have no real complaint about our other coaches. Sataki is probably among the best recruiters we have had without the name of LE attached.
So wha is the problem? " Time to recruit and reevaluate the coordinators on both sides of the ball. We simply have no playmakers. There isn’t a NFL player on this roster who is getting playing time… Maybe none at all." You said it.
I don’t think it is the coaches. We keep insisting that we can make orange juice out of lemons and their is a great resistance on this board to stop trying to use the lemons instead of oranges to make the desired juice.
Perhaps they feel that there is not enough caffein in oranges to make good orang juice.
We desperately need to make the necessary changes in order to keep up with those teams that have made changes and passed us up.
"Tanner thrived playing the hurry up offensive scheme of Anae. Now that he is required to stay in the pocket and do his reads… it is not comfortable for him. "
I have four questions for you.
When Mangum got injured that kept him out of probably 4 games or more, all of which we have lost, was he in the pocket
or was he out of he pocket?
Is the team better off having Mangum go outside the pocket, or would the team have been better off if he would have
stayed inside the pocket? (Yes indeed, I remember shoot and gun Steve Young)
Is Mangum more comfortable now because he went outside the pocket, or would he have been more comfortable
staying inside the pocket?
Would our win / loss record, 1-5 have been better if Mangum would have stayed inside the pocket or is it better now
because he left the pocket.
Okay, granted, all four questions are over simplifications and sometimes, the situation at hand dictates weather a player can stay in the pocket or if he must leave that pocket. The one question that probably should have been asked, instead of the four that were asked, is, ( What other positive options could have taken place, instead of Mangum leaving the pocket when her got hurt? yes next day quarterbacking at play here. I agree. Just brainstorming.
I am not sure if I agree with you or not when you said, “Tanner Mangum’s problems are upstairs.”
I think he told us more than we should know when he told us about his problems with depression etc.
Now, with more information than we should have been given, It is hard to tell if the depression problems are
truly what seems to be holding him back, or if we as fans, are looking for depression problems and blaming those
problems for a lesser performance than we saw during the two Hail Mary games of his performance.