How can we be this bad?

I was just thinking about how bad we are at the center position this year, so I did a little digging. I went back 10 years or so, and looked up our in the paint production. At that time, we had Araujo and Keena Young who manned the paint and scored 15 to 20 EACH. A few years later, it was Trent Plaisted, and he averaged around 15 a game. A few years later, it was Chris Miles, and he averaged only 6 or so. And more recently, Davies who averaged in the high teens. Now, 0???
What in the world is going on?
I know that there are many ready to defend Rose and Staff, but, I put the burden of blame on them. Either they cannot develop the center position, or they have made TERRIBLE recruiting decisions ( not counting Mika), or both.
If they are not to blame, then answer this question: How can every team that we have played, even the WCC bottom dwellers, out recruit us at the center position?
How can we have absolutely no talent in the paint right now?
Don’t give me the mission and injury excuse. There has always been a missionary issue and injuries every year. What we have is a talent problem, and what is going to be any better next year? The year following, Mika will be back, but will probably take a year to shake the rust off. Could we be 3 years out for any hope in the paint???
Sorry for the rant, but I am very frustrated when I watch the post play of the teams that we play.

There just isn’t enought big guys that live in happy valley. This lazy recruiting I have been complaining about for years. It’s not getting any better.

Really KC, you were talking wait till 3 years? I am looking forward to when those guys (LP) get together along with Destrup and some others. â– â– â– â–  Harmon not too long ago has said why Dave Rose has not gone after International player(s) in a long time? Do we know any of our coaches gone over seas? Just wondering. And why not or can Travis Hansen find one big guy for Dave Rose?

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It is hard to argue with the obvious. I too am very worried about our durth in quality big man recruiting.

Perhaps you have been missing my TIC comments mocking all the “wait till 2 seasons from now” crowd that has been posting here since Jimmer graduated. It’s our fans biggest flaw, they believe recruiting happy valley = ncaa success. Lazy recruiting is why we are where we are at, and I pointed this out years ago on this message board. I will say it again, we just aren’t a consistently strong program under the direction we are going. WCC has hurt our recruiting and when you couple that with lazy recruiting, you get what we currently have, a supposed better starting 5 on missions than on the team. Yet people forget, they are mostly average height, below average athleticism, and solid spot up shooters, but this isn’t utah HS basketball anymore. You need something more than local kids.

Lately I have enjoyed watching the BYU Women play basketball. Maybe Judkins ought to take over the men’s team and give the BYU Women’s team to Haley Steed.

I could not agree more.

One problem we have is that the Lone Peak high school team did so well playing against other big time high school programs. The thing many fans forget is that college basketball is an entirely different thing. It makes about as much sense as this idea that comes around every once in awhile that a great college team could compete with a bad pro team.

It’s nonsense!!!

There are actually people out there that will entertain or believe that this years’ Kentucky team could compete with the Minnesota Timberwolves or the Lakers or something. NO!!! It would not even be close.

The Lone Peak boys will not lead BYU to the ncaa playoffs and take them anywhere. You are right, if BYU wants to do anything in that regard they need to recruit outside of the BYU/local high school footprint.

I guess we will wait and see. When TJ Haws, Emery and Mika are all together…give them a season to get the rust off and we will visit the argument. Hawks, you have not seen TJ play a game yet, have you?

Nobody has seen him play a college game yet.

Right you are, KC but If you haven’t seen him play, then why respond? And if you had seen him play, you would most likely not be throwing rhetoric up on the board.

Is Tyler Haws a great player? Think of TJ as a guy that can shoot like his brother, pass like he has eyes in every direction, create his own shot anytime he wants and play defense (something Big Bro thinks is a option)

We don’t need to see him play a D1 game to say the kid has greatness…When Lone Peak graduated virtually the entire team,you know the guys named Mika, Shumway, Emery Et All…TJ and a guy named Jackson, a freshman, went ahead and took 5A state basketball here in Utah. A feat that few thought could be accomplished. Every team in Utah threw everything they could at these two and they all failed. TJ will most likely break his share of records if Rose is around to coach him. I say this only because of Rose’s health issues and that the carpet may be wearing thin when it comes to attracting big men and developing their talent.

Wow, so you confirm what we have been saying, a very good utah HS basketball player, that maybe in a few years if there is other recruits our coaches can get, but maybe not becaue their health might not be good enough to recruit, but if we can surround them with other great players, in 2-3 years we may have somethin great. Did I catch it all?

The facts are, the current program is suffering due to lazy recruiting from years past, and will continue to be who we are for some time unless wholesale changes take place. Happy valley I’m sure is great for HS talent, but to compete nationally in college, you need more than happy valley. It’s true what they say, there is more to life than utah. Some of you need to get out more often and see what you are missing.

I have seen highlights and bits and pieces of games. My brother saw him play and recognized that he was a good player but could not determine in that particular game if he was better than Tyler or had more potential, etc.

I’d like to refer back to my observation that in the Pepperdine game 4 of the 5 players who started that game played high school ball less than 10 miles from the BYU campus. I don’t need to say any more, as 2 of them were held scoreless… The greater provo/orem area probably has a population of around 300k and utah county is probably 500k +/-. I guarantee that the top basketball colleges with area populations of far more people do not start 4 of 5 players who played high school ball in the general footprint of the college campus.

Look at the great BYU teams of the past. Where have their players come from? Where was Jimmer from? Danny Ainge? Mike Smith? and many other greats like Kresimir Cosic? KC is right, BYU needs to expand their recruiting map if they want to compete at a higher level. If they want to be a middle of the pack wcc team then everything is in place to do that. I would venture to guess that many of the wcc teams recruit more local talent than the average D-1 program. But think for a moment who Gonzaga recruits or St. Mary’s for that matter. Why is 1/2 of the BYU team coming from less than 50 miles away?

I would have to agree that BYU has gotten lazy in their recruiting and that’s not saying anything bad about the in-state recruits whom they have had come in as of late. Mika was everything I thought he would be as a freshman. Frank Jackson would be an outstanding grab for BYU, but they have neglected the international big men, whom we have recruited in the past. How would this season have looked with a center or power forward that game in and game out had or was close to a double double. Maybe 8’s would have provided that and it was just bad luck that he was injured, but for some reason I am skeptical of that. Even an NBA player or two has said that the high school big men from the US are not as college ready as the Europeans. You have Emery and Haws coming in, but there again without a solid front court and solid bigs coming off the bench, you are looking at the same scenerio you have got now and Mika is going to be a great add, but it will take more than that to beat the Gonzagas. Gonzaga has Sabonis, a freshman, coming off the bench that grabs double-digit rebounds and is shooting 75% from the field and actually plays "smart"and as a freshman is better than any front court player we have-no debate. This BYU team can hang with anyone on a given night providing they are shooting well, but hey at least five or six games you have to be able to win “ugly”. Give me one guy who can dominate the paint and it just makes everyone else on your team 10% more effective.

Just wondering which I hope was not true. I found today article from Trib. that he open up his options to seek other school including team up north. No source coming from him that he decommitted to BYU. I have seen him play and wow he is good.

Yeah, but he is from the Provo/Orem area so he can’t be good. Apparently if all of the recruiting services rate you as a top 100 player, but you come from the Provo/Orem area, you can’t be good and Rose is only supposed to go after players outside the state and ignore the top 100 players in state.

That’s exactly what we have been saying, it’s like we have our own Gordon Monson in here.

I guess I just don’t understand the logic.

Year____ Player__ ESPN Rank
2013____ Mika_______ 28
2013____ Emery______ 45
2014____ TJ Haws____ 51
2014____ Dastrup_____ 95
2016____ Jackson_____ 31

So BYU should only have signed Dastrup since he’s not from Utah County.

Final 4 no doubt, in what, 2 or 3 years? It could it be the HS basketball in Utah isn’t what it is elsewhere thus making it easier for good players to look great?

One thing we know for sure, HS rankings are exposed once you get to the next level and even college rankings are exposed when NBA is involved.

And I don’t know of anyone saying Rose shouldn’t have recruited these guys, but simply don’t put all your eggs in the happy valley basket is all I have seen anyone say, except the apologists who thing all is well being a mid level WCC program. And to that I say, out little team is exactly that, a mid level mid major who every 10 years or so can make a run to a sweet 16 type finish.

Kay - how about the logic I used when I posted in the first place?

  1. I referred to the current roster and some of the problems the team is having THIS season when I stated that 4 of the 5 starters for the Pepperdine game were from within 10 miles of the BYU campus. 2 of those 4 scored 0 points, KC and Haws were the other 2. Half of the current roster is from the local area. How many of those were top 100 guys? KC and Haws maybe?

That is all I am saying and I think it warrants consideration.

Are you against recruiting outside of Happy Valley?

This feels like an insulated response we might get from church headquarters about having stake baptisms once a month because a handful of stakes in utah have a gazillion kids turning 8 soon, therefore all stakes in the church must comply with the new rule. in spite of the fact that most stakes only have a handful of kids turning 8 in any given year or month.

not sure what is happening here… but I am thinking of all the injuries to some of the previous players that had to quit playing and maybe have hurt our team currently.

But I understand your comment as well, because it seem that someone put a lot of eggs in the basket with the LP guys…

I have watched all five of the LP guys play, they are good players with “potential” to be great college players. but that does not mean we should not be looking for guys now to fill holes…