Illinois destroyed BYU both inside and out

Yeah, the game was close in the box score but BYU did not have a chance once Mika had to go sit with 2 fouls.

The reffing was a head scratcher…terrible calls on touch fouls on both Mika and Childs make it so that IU could get their big men to bull in and get easy baskets. Those crappy calls altered the game. In the second half, they just let them play and bang away.

BYU continues to shoot poorly from 3. I thought that would be the difference in scouting these guys, and it was. It was fun to see Leifson hit 2 big shots but he just gets abused out there on D so in the end, more harm than help.

Mika is the team right now. Childs is a beast and when either guy has to sit, BYU is vulnerable inside. Davis needs to get the leg fixed now as he is no help whatsoever. No Dastrup? Wats up widd that?

We could of used Guinn on Hill instead we get Leifson out there, Somebody tell me what I am missing?

Abrams killed us, Lands killed us, I already explained why IU’s bigs killed us and we all knew before the game that Hill would kill us. Typical BYU teams, offensive juggernauts with little defensive bite.

Lastly, Injuries have replaced the excitement of the pre-season with the reality that BYU has some real problems. Coach Rose looks old and tired, no fire.

You covered it all. In the preseason, I think Rose was so looking forward to this season. Then Elijah went down. He was going to be a huge part of this season. Something is still not right with the knee. I hope it isn’t a career ender like the one the Collinsworth kid had. Rose then saw Kyle Davis go down and suddenly his dream season looks pretty average.

I’m with you about Dastrup. I don’t know why he doesn’t get minutes. Aytes seems to be a pretty solid defender and Shaw seems to be doing pretty well but both are a far cry from what we get with Mika in the game. I don’t want to over-react to a loss. I do think the Illinois team was pretty good. But BYU could have won that game with a little more production from our guard players. We are going into league play with a lack of confidence and a bit unsettled. BYU can still turn things around but the liklihood of an NCAA bid this year is all but gone.

Pretty much sums up the year actually.

Hence Rose’s disappointment with Bryant’s injury.

He finally has the bigs and his guards just don’t have enough…I’m not sure what word to use…to get it done.

In every game this season, with exception to the Princeton team who now looks overrated, BYU has lost when it came up to senior laden teams, especially at guard. Just too much youth on our team. Notice that Haws sat most of the last 10 minutes of the game but I can’t understand why Liefson played while Beo and Guinn sat. This makes 0 sense to me…ZERO.

No Beo hasn’t done anything-too nervous to find his shot-another 0-3. Leifson hit big shots at crucial times -who knows what happens next time. What killed us is the first half Illinois took it inside and did what you said they couldn’t. 2nd half BYU played better D. It’seems hard to win when your guards shoot 33%. Despite all of that, it was a good game.
Refs called more fouls on Illinois than BYU and BYU had more foul shots. The officiating was average

Do you have first half stats to back up the foul disparity It seemed to me that Byu started getting calls in the second half not the first half

because Rose is in desperation mode looking for somebody who can score from the outside and hit an open 3. Leifson hit his first 3 and that was it. Beo barely missed his and that was it for him. Rose is looking for another Seljaas but nobody is getting enough minutes to be that guy.

Emery and Haws are going to get big minutes no matter what and when they are missing shots, because that is what they are doing regularly, BYU’s chances to win go way down. I love Emery and Haws skill set and ability but I hate their immaturity and the feast or famine they bring to every game, typically feast on patsies and famine against the better teams.

Deja vu from last year more or less…

It is the same scenario for every guard not named Haws or Emery. Rose gets the minutes even though he can’t hit wide open 3’s. The second tier guards - Beo, Leifson, Guinn, etc. feel the pressure to hit their first or second shot because that is all they will get and if they don’t hit something early it is bench for the rest of the game. Haws and Emery can miss multiple times during a game, we have seen it every game so far, with no consequences. They have less pressure but it doesn’t seem to help them relax and hit open shots with consistency.

Exactly what I said, only with added input as to why it is that way.

Liefson made his shots and that’s why he played. Haws didn’t sit all that much at the end. He needs to rest too. This is one of the problems with Emery and Haws. No one can consistantly come in for either one and produce. If Liefson makes his shots consistantly he will play more than the others. Beo wasn’t even looking for a shot. Guinn hasn’t hit a three all year.
Watching the game again I also noticed ILL. got their 10 point lead with Mika in the game. When he came out they stretched the lead more. Mika came in and started to whittle away at the lead. But he went out again and we really got back in the game. So, do we need Mika? It wasn’t Mika’s fault. Our defense and offense were playing in slow motion in the first half. A real problem in basketball and football. We start playing hard and with purpose after we get down.

I don’t Chris, but for a basketball game there wasn’t a lot of fouls called :16 on BYU, 19 on Illinois. BYU went to the foul line 18 times -Illinois 11. Two players from each team ended up with 4 fouls. Mika has a history of getting these types of ghost fouls as you call them so I don’t know what he is doing, but I remember one player for Illinois acting like he was getting the same type of call. Overall it was about as even a game Stat wise as you can have. Illinois had a better fg pct and out rebounded BYU by 3. It’s why they won.

Gee… I dunno. What do you think? :unamused:

Nah… the real reason Illinois won is because BYU doesn’t have what it takes to win games like this. No specific reason that one can point to really. The Cougars just don’t do whatever it takes to win games like this one. It’s the same kind of game they played vs. Valpo and USC. They have the talent, they just don’t have the maturity. It isn’t about inexperience or whatever because other teams deal with the same issues. They simply don’t play well enough to win close games.

In this case, it was inexperience. Although, at the end of the half, Emery took a quick 3 point shot with 38 seconds to go. I’m sure you thought that was a hero shot. But, it wasn’t. It was an attempt to get 2 shots for one. Just like they do in the NBA.
The confidence isn’t there. That comes with winning and that part is on the coach. Rose coaches well in the Colorado game at the end to win with having players come in and out for defense and offense. I didn’t see much in the Ill. Game.

There are so many things wrong with this comment I don’t know where to begin. It isn’t that what you are saying is wrong, because what you said is probably true. The idea is a good one if the team is playing at a level where they can pull something like that off. Unfortunately they are not. Perhaps Emery and Haws believe they are playing at a high level but they are not, mainly because their game is immature.

They both believe they can do things they obviously can’t. It is like they are still at Lone Peak high school, where they could dominate a game without much effort. For every awesome drive that Emery makes to the basket, I see 2 or 3 where he looks silly, gets stuffed or fumbles the ball and comes up empty. For every open 3 that Haws makes, I see him miss 2 or 3 wide open looks. For every great no look pass, I see 2 or 3 bad ones… The key to improving those things is to play within yourself and know when to do it and when not to. It is a judgement and maturity thing. They aren’t there yet. I hope they get there at some point…

Next year:expressionless:

If Emery makes 1 of his last two shots you are eating they don’t have what it takes. Simple math -they made more shots. 2+2=4 even . BYU made more ft’s they shot 4%less from the field. You can do this!

That disparity of BYU getting to the line 7 more times with just 3 more fouls validates what I said about how BYU getting the calls in the second half.

Ill has not had anywhere near the production from their bigs in any Big 5 type game this year, they hit 6-6 in the first half. That 1st call on Mika made him change how he was going to defend. Case in point…Ill made only 2 FGs in the entire 2nd half from inside. Mika was allowed to defend hard. Either you are Glenn mentioned that Rose would not start Mika his freshman year because of his propensity to get into foul trouble. Rose may have to resort to that same tactic once Kaufusi gets back just to protect him from every team we play knows…Mika is the team right now.

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Exactly, but that just doesn’t happen does it. Emery and Haws shot 33% and the primary reason they did is because their misses were either open 3’s that they just can’t seem to make or poorly selected shots on drives or other situations where they felt the need to chuck it up there even though they didn’t have a clear shot.

Don’t get me wrong, I love their talent and potential. I just don’t like their immature approach to the game. How many times is the 6’1" Emery going to drive to the basket and force up a shot that has little chance of going in and might as well be a turnover? How many times is Haws going to shoot a wide open 3 before he starts making them with consistency? and by consistency I mean better than 30%… he was 1-7 vs. Illinois.

So yes, you are right. If Emery or Haws makes one or two of their shots and increases their % beyond 33, BYU wins the game. This is nothing different than what has been said for most of the losses this season, last season and the season before that. It really is a moot point and a meaningless discussion…

It is like saying - If BYU scores more points than their opponent they win the game.

I believe you have hit the Haws dilemma on the head. I watched Haws begin the game with 2 quick turnovers. Rose takes him out to settle him down and when he inserts him those last 5 minutes of the 1st half, we came roaring back to within 3 points from what looked like a blowout. The kid is so talented but raw. Typical of a freshman.

Emery averaged 18PPG last year so he is considered a leader out there. He has to be counted on out there to make things happen and with that comes mistakes…outside of that brain fart pass at the end of the game, I thought he played fairly well in the IU game. Least we criticize him anymore, I would ask, “Who do we count on out there when we know that LJ Rose is dealing with foot injuries, Bryant can’t play so we are left with Beo and Leifson”. My only complaint is that Coach Rose relied on Beo to give us the Colo. game win and when we are in crunch time in the IU game, he goes with Leifson. Please refrain from the “Leifson hit 2 shots” because he got worked on defense. Beo not only can hit those 3s but he is far more the better defender as well as ball handler.

That and fact that Dastrup is buried on the bench when he is an ESPN top 100 and far more the defender that Shaw could ever be, as well as passer, would be the only complaints I have in what I thought was a winnable game.

OK I’m going to go out and make a bunch of people upset but it’s OK-I can handle the blue wave. Emery is more of a problem than Haws right now, just for the fact he has already had a year to mature and was highly touted coming into this year and is making freshman like mistakes. Haws is not in great shape-not adjusted completely to college ball-not physically able to be a defensive asset. So Haws gets a marginal pass and probably should be playing less minutes, but with Bryant not able to perform and the other guards not showing much, he will probably get more minutes than he should