Is BYU harder to get into than normal?

And a related question: has the number of students shrunk? Or, is there a glut of students who deferred with Covid who are reapplying?

Anecdotally, 5 of the 6 other missionaries in my son’s MTC district just got rejected (as freshman applicants, or transfers). My son went to NAU before and is returning to NAU. My daughter is at NAU and is going an extra semester after her freshman year ends before her mission to hopefully allow more Covid wreckage to be cleared away (she really is hoping for a real mission and not a Facebook mission). Several of her friends from the student wards had applied to transfer to BYU, and were bummed because they were rejected.

It just seems like the “batting average” of kids my family knows trying to get into BYU has historically been a lot higher. Also, I thought it was supposed to be easier to be accepted as a transfer, especially as a returning missionary.

Our family has soured on BYU as a school, but still roots for BYU in sports, so we don’t have a personal stake in this. I’m just curious if there are a slew of others being rejected right now.

Our family has soured on it as well…

My second son graduated in spring 2019 (neuroscience) and he should have had more scholarships (some half tuition things for a couple semesters) than he was getting… (they admitted as much), after the fact. I still think there is a LOT of favoritism and nepotism (for those that can make big donations or have relatives) that takes place at the provo campus and it spills over into every aspect of it, from education to athletics to whatever. It is way too elitist and smug at this point in time. Honestly, I can feel it when I visit… which was occasionally a few years ago.

I also want to mention that the administration does very little to help students that get caught or trapped by unscrupulous or dishonest/deceitful companies that supposedly provide services, etc. I had a son at BYU-I last year who had to come home when Covid forced students away from campus. His housing contract became a messy, convoluted disaster in which he was forced to pay for housing for the remaining semester and the following one as well. Then it carried over into this past semester as he ended up paying the housing place where he lived almost $1,500 and he only actually lived there for 2 months. The people in housing did NOTHING to stop the money grab, which was precipitated by a confusing and convoluted contract, strange deadlines and other “legal” (but rather unethical) jargon designed to cheat the student out of money. It was terrible.

There are a lot more members and missionaries than back in the 1970’s and 1980’s when we were there. I doubt I would be accepted now even with my huge brain and vertical jump ability. :sunglasses:

I was there in the late 80’s… and it was really difficult for me when I tried to transfer there, even though my GPA from Ventura JC was pretty high. I was let in on probation… odd but somehow made it through my probation and graduated! :joy:

It isn’t the same BYU as it was in the mid 1990s when I went there. Several people have told me that their children came home raging liberals ---- primarily from their professors, not other kids. My department alumni magazine devoted its whole last issue to social justice and equity. It was as gaggy as that sounds — complete with the title article, which called for “free range” education, where students aren’t disciplined and learn on their own, in public education. I can’t believe I graduated from there in 1999.

Then, there was the honor code fiasco a year ago, where they “de-criminanlized” gay dating (with the national news showing gay couples kissing in front of the Brigham Young statue by the Smoot building, interviewed kids saying they had never been on a date, went on their first gay date, and now had many lined up, etc.). After weeks of radio silence from angry students, parents, and Church members, finally Elder Paul Johnson of the Seventy said that gay dating does nothing to progress people towards eternal families, and isn’t encouraged. It’s kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” but the upshot is that in the current climate, no one is going to be disciplined for it. All because of how BYU handled it.

And there is BYU changing from FARMS/Maxwell Institute to the ecumenical “Mormons Studies” Review — which, wanting more academic prestige, is neutral/agnostic on Mormon truth claims. And very boring (no one wants to read it).

Probably most of all is that, in our experience, the student ward experience is better in vibrant student wards at state schools. We know a lot of kids (some former students of mine) who despaired with BYU-P’s online student wards and online school (NAU student wards had in-person church/activities and in-person school fall semester, even though I don’t think that was according to Church policy. YSA wards have to have real church and activities. Heck, so does the rest of the Church). Several decided to stay online and stay at home, because it was online, anyway — but that’s not why kids or parents want BYU.

[quote=“JCoug, post:2, topic:8988”]
My second son graduated in spring 2019 (neuroscience) and he should have had more scholarships (some half tuition things for a couple semesters) than he was getting… (they admitted as much), after the fact. I still think there is a LOT of favoritism and nepotism (for those that can make big donations or have relatives) that takes place at the provo campus and it spills over into every aspect of it, from education to athletics to whatever. It is way too elitist and smug at this point in time. Honestly, I can feel it when I visit… which was occasionally a few years ago.[/quote]

Our son was a valedictorian with high test scores, and Provo only offered him half-tuition. I realize that Provo has these in abundance, and they are nothing special, but when the state schools are offering full-ride (as in, no housing or meal or books/incidentals, either), it’s pretty hard to turn that down. Especially when, in hindsight, the church experience is better, anyway.

NAU isn’t as crazy liberal as ASU or UofA. It may be a wash as to whether it’s more liberal than BYU.

BYU-Idaho seems much more conservative than Provo.

What Covid revealed is that schools make a lot of their money off of housing and meal plans. Schools weren’t willing to pro-rate on-campus housing and meal plans for Covid, because this hurts their bottom line. Also, it’s revealing to look at the itemized fees. BYU doesn’t do this, because it makes students buy tickets, but the Arizona schools include student tickets with the fees (the athletic fee is typically $500 a semester, but you get in free to games). Or the “technology” fees, or whatever. Around the country, lots of parents and students didn’t want to pay the fees for things they wouldn’t be using (cancelled sports seasons), and they were told to pound sand by administrations, when they tried to get a pro-rated or outright refund. The schools depend on these fees to make ends meet, and weren’t in a position to refund the money.

When we go up for games at NAU, we buy good seats, even though our kids can sit in the student section for “free.”

Since our kids have everything paid for, we aren’t as passionate about the issue, but I understand the outrage. Our daughter had even selected 10 meals a week, and the school upgraded her to 14 “at no extra cost.” I think they are paying themselves that amount, though — whether scholarship or grant, they get the money. I used to think scholarships represented them just writing it off.

NAU’s enrollment with Covid dropped from 24,000 to 19,000, which represented a loss of $100 million. I think all schools are facing this.

Maybe because I was Jewish they wanted me there. My GPA was maybe 2.5 at VC. I did much better by the time I graduated from BYU. I started during the summer session. Maybe that helped too.

Case in point (just saw this):

This is coming from BYU itself. It’s literally no different now from attending any other school.

Just more white shaming from pinhead liberals who have infiltrated the university as they have all across the nation.
What does it mean “root out” racism? Teach people how to love is always the best method. Not going around claiming there is systemic racism which is another bogus term.
So, there’s what, 35,000 students at BYU? 1% are black. That’s 350 students who classify themselves as black. I classify them as people and judge them on the content of their character. Before anyone gets brave and attack me, I grew up Jewish and am well aware of bigotry and hate. But, I never once used that as an excuse to to be where I wanted to be including BYU, an all-Mormon university.
The numbers touted around also don’t suggest systemic racism. Only 13% of all students of color claim dissatisfaction. Well, I can also say that it’s true with those of different religions as well. When I went to BYU, so did another person from my town in California and she was Catholic. She felt dissatisfaction but that’s because of her attitude that she was going to show those “mormons” how good Catholic girls can be too and go to her church on Sundays. She lasted maybe a year. Actually, I think she left after a semester. It’s all about attitude. You have a chip on your shoulder and you’ll have a lousy time. I didn’t. I was completely accepted on campus and in Ward at Wymount Terrace. I never once felt discrimination.

With that said, I know that racism existed off campus as well as on campus. But, not at the level this committee is making it to be. Has something changed? I started at BYU in 1977. There were several blacks from Africa as well as U.S. citizens in my classes. Several Hispanic as well. I never heard one person object on campus when President Kimball extended the Priesthood to blacks. What this is going to do is simply open up some old wounds and controversies that didn’t have to happen. There will be more racial divide than ever just like in society in general is now because of the liberal agenda to brand whites shameful. What is obvious is no one cares anymore what Martin Luther King Jr. said when things were really bad with racism.

So, any thoughts on this? I just see more problems, not less.

This got me the most as I do not have kids who went to BYU. I read the entire article and liberalism is abundant in those “recomendations.” It would not surprise me to see the church itself turn to embrace liberal ideas and ideals sometime in the future.

It is a real problem. BYU rejects too many excellent students. Probably time for another BYU Idaho to pop up without all the idaho wind. Need a mid sized town with a walmart, where should we put it?

Somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico

Make it happen, Gilbert or an LDS suburb. Too many great students are not being served by BYU’s entry req…s…

It’s okay to love the sinner and treat people kind who are spiritually sick. But it’s not okay to accept sins and approve of them.

Southern Virginia is waiting to be scooped up and expanded. Personally I would opt for an eastern site near a historical Mormon site, land around Nauvoo, KC, Cleveland is cheap…KC would be my preference for weather reasons. Though doesn’t beat Southern Virginia.

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Yeh I though about Southern Virginia as I had a relation play baseball there. I like Arizona for the climate and I feel like it’s a drawing feature for students and athletes alike. However, maybe we need a church school back east to help spread the church influence. Probably never happen, but it’s fun to consider it and with the growth worldwide of the church, I don’t see it as impossible to have another 30000 student University in Virginia eventually, using it as a worldwide institute of learning and healthy ideals. Then again, if Missouri is the future great gathering place, maybe there

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This is very disturbing. I don’t have any children who attended school there but assumed BYU was still a conservative bastion. I graduated in 1976 and assumed not much had changed. There were a few liberals there at the time but not many. With nearly all of higher education corrupted by the mental disorder of liberalism I would have hoped that BYU would be a safe haven from a virus far more dangerous than Covid 19.

Frankly I am dismayed at the constant references of rooting out racism. Of course there is racism but it seems there is a disproportionate focus on it compared to other issues. This has been a recent phenomenon and it seems the country is devolving back into a condition of racial discord akin to what we saw in the 60s. The unnecessary obsession over racism seems to have started with the election of Obama after great progress had been made in race relations since the mid 60s. I have been surprised by frequent references about racism by the brethren. I don’t question their inspiration but wonder why there is so much focus on the issue. It seems to me that the constant focus on the issue has created more discord than harmony.

As far as gay dating goes it shouldn’t happen at BYU. I hadn’t heard about it and am greatly disturbed that it is tolerated. Any kind of sexual relationships outside a legal marriage between a biological man and a biological woman is sin and a perversion. I assume our society has become so permissive and perverted that the Church has to be very nuanced in its reactions to such things to avoid virulent attacks from the mainstream media.

Social media, Hollywood, higher education, so called journalism, TV newscasts, etc are dominated by so called liberal thought that is anything but liberal in that it broaches no dissent. Freedom of dissent doesn’t exist anymore in the institutions of higher education and those institutions are sowing the seeds of destruction for our traditional culture, constitutional Republic, and the traditional family I would hope that BYU still primarily prepares young people for useful careers, to be solid citizens, and openly espouses the principles of the true gospel of Jesus Christ rather than the quasi religions of the World.

We live in perilous times where the adversary has taken control of most of the sources of information and you can lose your job, friends, and reputation in a heartbeat just for making a misstatement, or expressing a view that is contrary to the current doctrines of those in political power and those who control social media. If a large portion of the populace would adhere to the teachings of Christ there would be no need for the obsessions over race, gender identification, so called sexual orientation etc.

The pity is that if I participated much on Facebook I could never post something like this.

I wouldn’t have a problem if you sent this to the committee and even the brethren. I was reading in the new handbook concerning some of these issues on gays and transgender issues. This sort of thing should never be allowed at BYU.

I find it interesting now, just a few years back on the board we had a discussion about BYU. My stance was and still is “BYU is not the Lord’s University” of which I was roasted by some of the posters on this thread.

They called me all kinds of names, including that I was not a worthy member of the church because I did not blindly support BYU like they thought I should.

I do not think BYU has changed in how they teach or the environment they want to build. You still have the mandatory religion classes and rules that dictate behavior. Yes, there are going to be Liberal professors because that is academy now.

What I think has changed is the beliefs and behaviors of the Students going to BYU. Non-compliance is happening all over the world when it comes to religion. Even the church youth are starting to leave the church in hugh numbers. The kids today are not satisfied with the answers they get from our leaders.
For example, “Why were the Blacks withheld the Priesthood when Joseph Smith himself ordained several blacks to the Priesthood?”. The answer they got was not what they wanted to hear. So some left the church over. My daughter was one of them (also because of stance the church made over gay issues).
As for racism, It has been around for a long time and in some areas of the country it is as bad as it ever been. I learned a very important lesson from a friend who is black and he kind of showed me a long the way how racism is still a live (all though he also believes people do things without intending to be offensive) and well.
The thing my friend stated which I feel is important is that “Racism” comes in all shapes and sizes. No, we do not lynch people now a days for the color of their skin, nor do we stop people from sitting a booth in a restaurant like in the 1940’s and 50’s.

But when you watch a movie and the bad guy (drug dealer) is always “black”, what does that say?
OR when a black person gets arrested, he is about 8 times more likely to be sentenced to Jail than a white person (FBI Statistics).

But to be fair, I also think you are right about how the far left and black militant organizations are using “Racism” to take advantage of a situation. They really do not care about the life of a black person in America, what they want is control.

FYI, The gay dating at BYU was a misunderstanding by some people at BYU. They are still not allowed to date, or show affection in public. At least that is what the BYU Honor Code office put out.