Is our words, actions, attitude keeping us out of P5 confences? If so, is there anything we can and should and are willing, to do anything about it?

What I have to say, is not intended to find fault with the Church or the University which it owns, but instead, hopefully to alert some of it’s membership, that some of our thinking, some of our actions, and some of our our attitudes in general, (that we are better than everyone else), might be doing far more harm to the Church and the University than any good that they could be accomplishing.

Admittedly, what I may say, may be more harmful than good, and if the editors think this to be so, I request that instead of suspending me for 100 years, that instead, you just delete this posting and let’s be friends…

1Q. Why do we always blame others for our own short comings?
2Q. Why do we blame those that we deem as prejudice”
3Q. Why do we blame those that we call far left liberals.
4Q. Why do we always feel that those other guys are against us for no good reason?
5Q. Why do we believe that we are not doing anything wrong, when evidence says we are.

  1. Why can’t we see what is keeping us from having the respect we need to get into any P5
    conference? We can have respect by being respectful. Why can’t we be respectful?

  2. Why can’t we see that others do not want to deal with people/places/things that
    expect everyone else to give in to their needs, but at the same time, refuse to give into
    some of the needs of the organizations which we want/need to be in? Why do we see
    our values as the only values worth while, while seeing values that differ from ours as
    useless, or worse, we see them as bad and/or uninformed…

  3. Why do we blame liberals, for our failures, because liberals want us to be more fair
    and more inclusive of those in the organizations which we so badly want/need to be
    a part of?

4A.) Why can’t we understand that we can not interfere with California Politics from Utah
(Prop 8) where USC is and where UCLA is, and where Cal is, and where Stanford is,
and expect them to like us and vote to have us join the Pac 12?

4B.) Why can’t we stop from telling the world that the LGBT community is an abomination
in the sight of the Lord, but the Straight community is not, and not realize that 2/3 of the
world Capital for this group is in Hollywood and San Francisco, where the other 1/3 is on
one of the Greek Islands. Hollywood is near USC and UCLA while San Francisco is near
Cal and Stanford. How can we expect these four Universities in the Pac 12 to vote for our
inclusion into the Pac 12, and be tormented by the LGBT community for doing so when all
the pac 12 has to do is vote against our inclusion and thus avoid the baggage that we would
be carrying with us. It is better to not have to deal with us and our unpopular baggage.
Our baggage is not the making of the Pac 12 so they should not have to deal with it.

The Big 12 decided that it would be better to stick with only 10 teams than to have to
     deal with all the baggage that BYU would have to bring with then because of the mess 
     they made with the LGBT community.

A modified version of 1978 needs to be made in a hurry to give the LGBT community a full
    respected and benefitted seat at the table without reticule.  .

4C.) Why can’t we believe what the Bible tells us? “Judge not, (lest ye be J U D G E D.”
“leave all the judging to God.” Why are we surprised that when we judge others, when told
by God, not to, that we will suffer the consequences of not obeying this commandment. As long
as we judge the LGBT community, they will set judgement on us and any conference that might
have let us in. No !!! They will keep us out and it will be of our own making. Prejudice? No!
Surprise? No. Liberals fault? No!! We expect the whole world to think as we do and they don’t,
and we apparently, are not smart enough to figure this out, or perhaps, we are just too arrogant to
think it is our fault.

  1. Why do we continue to believe that we are not doing anything wrong when what we do, and
    what we say, and how we act, keeps us out of the sports mainstream world that we so much
    want and need to be a part of. What will it take for us to realize that it is not prejudice, unless
    we do, say, and act in such a way as to cause people to be prejudice against us. We have a
    habit of calling those that follow the commandments of the Bible, in Loving thy neighbor as
    yourself, and judge not lest ye be judged, and leave all the judging to God, as bleeding heart
    liberals. Shish!!! Wow!!! is this what we are really about? We need to make some changes in
    our attitude.

    Finally, there will always be those irritating people that pretend to be more holy than God,
    that will ask, "Ron, what is more important, 1. Keeping the Mission of the Church or 2. Getting
    into the P5 conference? My answer to these self righteous brothers would be, If the mission
    of the Church is not in conflict with what the Bible teaches us, one need not choose between the
    mission of the Church and Football, but see them inclusive of each other.

You have already stated these things in the past and we pretty much rejected this. While there will always be bad apples in the Church, by far, the people are Christlike and have nothing to do with your questions and statements. Can we be better? Sure! But, none of this has anything to do with why some players don’t come to BYU. If it is, it’s their own prejudices they grew up with and heard about the lies.

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Scott, I agree that a vast majority of Latter Day Saints do not resemble in any way what Ron was depicting and I personally don’t believe that that negative view of the church, its members, or BYU is what is keeping a P5 conference from inviting us to join them. We can speculate why, and I have some ideas, but ultimately it is their choice and I think they have made it clear. They are not interested. I can live with that. I say, let’s move on and play the best football we are capable of. I want to have fun watching BYU play and this season was not all that much fun to watch.

Breaking my own promise to myself with this reply so I am one of these hypocritical Mormons. Ron, you say you don’t intend to find fault with the church or the University but in this post is extensively about finding fault. And this is not the only post where you find fault, you have posted these same pretty negative comments about the church, members and the university on many occasions. I don’t have a problem with these criticisms except that you keep repeating them so many times as if you want to remold members and these two institutions into your own image. The gospel and the church are moral structures and compasses to lead and direct the Lord’s children not for an hour, day, week, year, or century but forever. So If actually of God, then the gospel stands against all social upheavals and trends to proclaim what is God’s truth. If the church and its members bow to every social change then it is man’s church and not worth bothering with, in my opinion. We don’t bow and scrape to recruits, even if they are 10 stars. Likewise, we don’t bow and scrape to other universities, conferences or to social groups that have agendas opposed to gospel principles.

I do not believe for a second that the vast majority of LDS members are unfriendly to non-members. I have lived in Alaska, Illinois, Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, California, Washington and Nebraska and have found most members, by far, to be positive, pleasant and friendly to non-members. If every conference and team in the entire USA does not want us because of our beliefs, principles and practices then SO BE IT! I am sick to death of football money running universities and trying to influence members standards. The LDS church has as its cannon of scripture; more than the Bible and there are prophets who receive revelation for the church and the world. We don’t believe in just one or three or eight scriptures, we believe in the entirety. But if you choose to cherry pick scriptures, don’t complain when others cherry pick also. This admonition of yours (over and over and over) to judge not lest you be judged; it would be good if you also adhered to that principle in your constant judging of others on this SPORTS FAN discussion board.

Ok, thar she blows!

Dear Roy,

The world is full of both positive and negetative persons, places and things, We usually find what we are looking for.
Remember the parable about the Master that had two servants. He sent one out into the world to find and the negetaive and the other to find all of the positive?

My intent is not to find fault, but to hopefully brainstorm with others to find a way to make something good, even better.
God bless brother.