It will be a sad day for BYU Football

Football
1

It will be a sad day for BYU Football when protestors stop protesting.

It will be sad when people don’t care if we are P5, G5, or FSC,
or if we don’t exist at all, because in the theme of things, and
in keeping with our mission statement, football is not all that important.

It will be a sad day when people say that in the theme of things, and in relation to our Mission Statement, football really is not all that important in the theme of things.

It will be sad when fans don’t care anymore if we win or lose or if we even have a team anymore or not.

Yes, if we have to choose, ------ academics will always be more important, ------but it will be a sad day if we must ever have to choose between the two instead of enjoying each of the two.

It will be a sad day, when people stop caring that our football program is not funded adequately enough to be competitive vs P5 teams, and will never deserve the opportunity to be invited into a P5 conference unless we get in politically, or legislatively without earning the right through showing that we can indeed be competitive successfully, and consistently vs those P5 teams which we play.

It will be a sad day, when all BYU fans will have to cheer for the successful Utes, that bit the bullet, and paid the price to be successful, because BYU will have no team to cheer for of its own, or the games will be so meaningless that only the parents of the players will want to come to see the games, as the rest of us will be watching the Pac 12, or Big 12 or Big 10 or SEC or ACC games.

It has already been a sad time that we have not been funded sufficiently enough to have a successful program for the past 10-15 years. Perhaps longer.

I am already sad just thinking about it. I love BYU and my Cougars.

I feel that we deserve more but fear that there are more of those complacent with the status quo than there are those willing to ask for more.

Already, I have witnessed on this site, from one person, that he fears that if we ask the Brethren for more, we may lose it all, so he remains silent. How sad can that be?

It will be a sad day, when more of us are afraid to speak out in fear that if we do, we may lose it all.

The cry that people are prejudice against us, (The no Sunday Play), the Academic Standards, the honor code and all other excuses that we offer for not being accepted into a P5 conference
are just excuses that only we believe.

If we showed as an independent, that we can and do play a P5 schedule (9 or more P5 teams each season) and are consistently successful vs them, we will be, like Notre Dame, recognized as an Independent P5 team that any P5 conference would be happy to have us as a member of their conference.

On the other hand, if we are not willing to make the initial investment, starting with paying for experienced P5 successful coaches, we will just go on not accepting the responsibility of our lack of action and blame the honor code, the no Sunday play, the academics, the prejudice etc, for our non acceptance. How sad is that?

2

RU: How sad is it that Ricks College/BYU-Idaho has no inter-collegiate sports? Who do you think made the decision to stop inter-collegiate sports at Ricks/BYU-I. Need I mention who? What is the number one priority at BYU/Idaho? ACADEMICS.
What did schools like Iowa State in the Big (little 10)12 conference and Stanford and Cal of the PAC-12 publicly say about BYU? They brought up the BYU standards concerning same-sex attraction issues and did not want BYU in their conference. That is what students and student organizations in these schools said about BYU. So far has BYU been invited to either of these two conferences? Geographically does BYU fit into any other P-5 conference but the Big 12 or the PAC-12? Utah never had to go Indy to get into the PAC-12. Utah is a state school without the standards of BYU. They won two big bowl games and got into the PAC-12.

3

You know, I don’t know what is fact and what is illusion in regards to why BYU isn’t in a P5 school. I suspect the PAC 12 is not a good possibility as they have state universities only. The Big 12 has TCU, so that’s a little better possibility. The fact is, though, BYU will always have something working against them-half a century ago it would have been blacks and the Priesthood-today it might be gay issues-it will always be something. I’m not even sure the MWC would welcome us back. BYU is a unique University that may not attract a lot of 5 star athletes, no matter what the conference situation. Air Force and Navy find themselves in a lot the same situation or even more difficult and seem to do pretty well. How do they do it? Well they get really good coaches-then develop an offense and defense that fits their talent and their teams are generally very precise and disciplined. It all starts at the top. Schools in the PAC 12 usually hate to play Mike Leach at WSU, even though they have been a perennial doormat before Leach, because of the system he brought with him. It can be done, but it takes a lot of thought, effort and maybe a little more dollar incentive

4

Tex points out Ricks College dropping athletics. I’m saying that President Nelson doesn’t have a problem changing directions. Dropping athletics when he sees that the fans view the Mission of the Church not as important as BYU football and the income paid to coaches is possible. I think right now BYU is progressing in all sports including football. But pride and greed are the destroyers of Liberty and freedom. We have proved we can beat good top 25 teams and even top 25 teams in P5 conferences. And I believe the BOT and others know this. So, root for the home team.

5

texcoug
"RU: How sad is it that Ricks College/BYU-Idaho has no inter-collegiate sports? "

I totally agree with you on all points in this post.

California Prop 8 and the out of state interference with the California Prop 8 elections, set us back. I would be much happier if we stayed out of politics and tried to improve ourselves and not try to make the rest of the world believe what we believe when indeed, they do not share the same belief.

6

Evil wins when good people do nothing. Doing nothing caused the world to be flooded. Doing nothing caused Israel to fall into 400 years of slavery in Egypt. Doing nothing prepared the world to slay their Lord God, Son of the Father and fall into 1400-1800 years of apostasy and darkness. The Church has been re-established to bring people out of darkness and into the light. Our duty is to make sure all have the truth of the commandments and what they are so every soul has the opportunity to accept the truth, including that homosexual acts are vile sins and evil. Prop. 8 was an opportunity the Prophet gave us to stand up to evil and reminding humanity that homosexual acts, including gay marriage, are vile sins contrary to the order of Heaven.

7

RU: California Prop 8 and the out of state interference with the California Prop 8 elections . . ."

Arkiecoug: Just like you have the right, Ron, to spurt your upsetness, here on this board, about the church policies, the church (the organization and its leaders) have as much right to voice their opposition to homosexuality and same-sex marriage.in Utah, California, New York, Florida, Arkansas or any other ■■■■ state they so choose. Whether it set us forward or back is not for you to define. The truth is it did both, according to which perspective each individual / organization might believe. You, Ron, have just as much right to come to Utah and protest FOR homosexuality, same-sex marriage, late-term abortion or any other BS. Why don’t YOU stick to football on this board, not interfere with the purpose of this board, and I will be glad to do the same going forward…

8

“Evil wins when good people do nothing”.

Grasshopper, one of our Articles of Faity states that:
“We believe in honoring and obeying and sustaining the law of the land.”

We, outside of California Politics, should not interfere with the politics inside of California. When we do, we are not living the advice of the Articles of Faith, and when we don’t, we bring the wrath of those which we offend, down upon us.

We can lead a horse to water, but that horse, has it’s free agency as to drink it or now. We should not force that horse to drink, even if we feel that it would be best for the horse if it hydrates.

9

arkiecoug,

"RU: California Prop 8 and the out of state interference with the California Prop 8 elections "

I still believe in the early teachings of the Church, which in more recent years have been watered down or diluted, or perhaps, dehydrated, which is the “Free Agency” To choose that which is right or wrong, and be judged accordingly, by the choices you make, by God the Father.

I believe that the Church has gone to great efforts to let the world know what it believes on this issue at hand. I also believe that we did not follow our own beliefs when we interfered in the election process of a state which we are not a part of. Forgiveness from
those living in California, will not come soon or easy, for some residents in California, that were greatly offended, that their Free Agency was not honored by outsiders.

This is not intended to be an argument nor is it intended to be a debate. It is intended to remind us all that gospel and teachings of the Church, past, present, or future, should not be a pick and chose type behavior, but to follow all of it, and not just the parts that we like. We have no right to interfere with the free agency of others or try to force them to do what we believe while ignoring what they believe if their opinions are different.

They know what we believe. It is between them and God, if they do something different from what we believe to be true.

I trust Floyd’s judgement and knowledge very much. We do not alway agree but even when we disagree, an intelligent difference exist which is respected.

I also trust and respect the opinion and knowledge of Sr_Burton.
Again, we do not always agree, but even when we do not agree it is done intelligently and with respect.

I hope that these two men give their opinions. I am not asking to take sides, but to only give their knowledge and opinion on the subject.

Some say that I live too much in the past. I say that if a subject
was correct in the past, That same subject remains the same correct today, perhaps with a different emphases, but none the less, what was true in the past is true today.

10

Proposition 8 was not the law of the land. That’s why it was a proposition on the ballot to become a law. So, the Prophet had a perfect right to call on all Californians, members and non-members, to reject this perversion of God’s law. So, members in California, such as myself and others, supported the downing of gay marriage. So, what’s your point?

I have every right to also object to Utah’s absurd laws and your representatives like Mutt Romney. That doesn’t mean I can come to Utah and break the laws of Utah. So, what’s your point. We followed the Prophet in his rejection of gay marriage.

11

Sorry Floyd. But the Prophet can legally direct members of the Church in political and civil matters when it comes to religious beliefs. The Constitution and the laws surrounding this in which LBJ and his Congress that stopped churches using the pulpit to support candidates for offices. The law does not keep churches from supporting or rejecting propositions or lawmaking.
So, again, I support those who fought for marriage being between a man and a woman only. And, I believe the Church is lead by a Prophet of God and that he will never lead the Church astray and/or be given to another.

12

RU: " I still believe in the early teachings of the Church, which in more recent years have been watered down or diluted, or perhaps, dehydrated, which is the “Free Agency” To choose that which is right or wrong, and be judged accordingly, by the choices you make, by God the Father."
Arkiecoug: You BELIEVE, which is great but you are talking about belief, not fact. You seem to be intimating that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is in a state of apostasy, i.e., “the early teachings of the church, which in more recent years has been watered down or diluted, or perhaps, dehydrated . . .” I believe, and assume that several members of this site, do NOT believe that the Church is devolving into apostasy.

RU: " . . . I also believe that we did not follow our own beliefs when we interfered in the election process of a state which we are not a part of."
Arkiecoug: Again believe as you will about us following or not following our own beliefs. However, you cannot give one shred of EVIDENCE - not beliefs - that the Church or individual Church members INTERFERED in the election process of California. The Church and its members exercised their free agency. According to your own words, you should be proud of that.

RU: “Forgiveness from those living in California, will not come soon or easy.”
Arkiecoug: That is ok for people to not forgive, regrettable but ok.

RU: " . . . for some residents in California, that were greatly offended, that their Free Agency was not honored by outsiders.
Arkiecoug: Has nothing do with honor or dishonor, has to do with disagreement.

RU: “This is not intended to be an argument nor is it intended to be a debate.”
Arkiecoug: Of course it is an argument but not a debate because the great RU has told us how it should be.

RU: " It is intended to remind us all that gospel and teachings of the Church, past, present, or future, should not be a pick and chose type behavior, but to follow all of it, and not just the parts that we like."
Arkiecoug: I agree, as long as you stop doing the same.

RU: “We have no right to interfere with the free agency of others or try to force them to do what we believe while ignoring what they believe if their opinions are different.”
Arkiecoug: Produce one shred of evidence (fact, not belief) that the Church interfered or forced anything.

RU: “I trust Floyd’s judgement and knowledge very much. We do not alway agree but even when we disagree, an intelligent difference exist which is respected. I also trust and respect the opinion and knowledge of Sr_Burton. Again, we do not always agree, but even when we do not agree it is done intelligently and with respect.”
Arkiecoug: Bravo.

RU: “I hope that these two men give their opinions. I am not asking to take sides, but to only give their knowledge and opinion on the subject.”
Arkiecoug: Right on!

RU: “Some say that I live too much in the past”
Arkiecoug: BTW, I have been a member of the Church for 71 years.

Arkiecoug: Say what you will about your beliefs about the FB program and I will keep my mouth shut but jump on the Church and I will jump right back. I am NO shrinking violet. When I was young and living in Tennessee, I had to put up with a whole lot of nastiness regarding the Church, but will not do so in Zion.

13

Nice job Arkie! It’s amazing how confused people get concerning the Church, whose in charge and who has authority. And, it’s amazing how many don’t know the laws of the land. The Church can lawfully be involved with California propositions without losing non-taxation. It’s lawful to stand against immoral laws and regulations.

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We disagree.

15

You worry about losing non-taxation. I worry about losing morality.

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You are the one supporting the Church should stay out of the debate because it was illegal. I simple answered that you are wrong. There are no laws restricting the Church supporting or even driving the anti-gay marriage by asking members to join with Catholics and Evangelicals against Prop 8. The law you were thinking about only restricts Churches from preaching from the pulpit for support for an individual running for office. Try not to get lost.

If you aren’t against immorality of homosexual acts then how are you defending morality?

17

Arkie, those are your words, not mine. You may be judgemental if you wish.

18

I believe that God gave each man his free agency to choose between right and wrong, and man will be Judged By God, according to the choices man makes with that free agency.
I believe that we should judge not, lest we be judged, So Saith
The Lord.

19

Nonsense… you combine two separate and distinct parts of doctrine and change their meaning by doing so.

Free moral agency (not just free agency) is our given right by God to choose whether to follow God’s commandments or not. In order to have this agency, we humans have to know what the commandments are. Which is the reason to share the Gospel so all humans have the opportunity to stay on the path to the Tree of Life. The filthy river, mist and great and spacious building are those commandments that are broken and where we end up if we break those commandments and do not repent. The Terrestrial or Telestial is not the Tree of Life destination. So, it’s up to us to know the commandments and let others know as well by sharing the Gospel and teaching correct principles and commandments. I’m sorry you can’t warn your neighbors without judging. Being a good example as you are isn’t always good enough. We are asked to open our mouths when we see something wrong.

20

Texcoug,

“RU: How sad is it that Ricks College/BYU-Idaho has no inter-collegiate sports?”

I totally agree with you. Academics is not the only measure of success in our society. Koby Bryant never went to college, and he died being one of the wealthiest athletes in America.