Jarom [email protected] posted on Cougar Sports wire something that disturbs me

Jarom Jordon, on facebook, posted:

“I want to stay Indy until realignment happens and see if a P5 invite happens.”

" If the schedule is too tough, some of those great things will have a harder time being recognized because if you don’t win 10+ in college football, it’s hard to be relevant."

" I want 1-2 fewer P5’s a year on the schedule."

Does anything above sound schizophrenic to anyone except me? Has the man ever played football?

Can anyone explain to him that if we play and kill 12 FCS teams ending with a 12-0 season, that will not make us as relevant as playing 9 P5 teams plus 3 respected G5 teams and finish the season 7-5 or even 6-6.

Does he really think that playing two less P5 teams now, (5-2=3 only that are P5) will make us more prepared to be a P5 team if we are ever selected to join a P5 conference?

Does anyone see any connection in practicing, win or lose, to become a true P5 contender, by scheduling and playing more P5 teams and not less P5 teams, will better prepare us, should the time ever come that we might get chosen to join a P5 conference?

Does anyone really believe that playing 10 patsies to get a 10-2 season is more important than getting the schooling on how to play a P5 season vs P5 teams?

I am so frustrated with those that think we should be chosen to play for a P5 conference without putting in the work and yes, the sacrifice of having many losses while learning how to play vs P5 teams, just because they want 10-2 seasons or better. Really??? College students think this way??? Really?

Ronald, I can tell you someone who would rather play 10 patsies than tough competition … just to keep his 20 win season streak alive … Rose!!!

Jarom Jordon,

I respectfully disagree with part of your reply while totally agreeing with other parts .

Yes, I played foodtball in High school TE, but was not good enough for the next level. Too small at 155 lbs and only 5’10" back in 1952-53.

If we can not show that we can be competitive with at least 4 P5 teams plus a very good G5 team, (Boise State) then we are acknowledging that we are not good enough to be a P5 conference team contender.

Right now, we are taking the steps to learn how to be competitive with a P5 schedule. We are doing what we must do, win or lose. At this point,
we are learning how to be competitive vs P5 teams. We are not quite there yet, but if we keep the course, we soon will be. If we change the course for something easier, we may never be.

Winning 10-12 games vs FCS teams and G5 teams with just one or two P5 teams does us no good.

Personally, I would not want to be in a P5 conference if we are going to lose every game. We don’t learn how to be competitive vs P5 teams by programing teams that we know we can beat among the G5 and FCS teams…

If I was the decision maker, which I am not, but if I were, and if the other teams were willing and able,(which they probably are not), I would program, ( the expected to be) 9 worst (P5) teams in the Nation, along with the 3 average G5 teams. That would help our win/loss record vs P5 teams. Until we are accepted and recognized as a P5 team by all, (Independent or Conference), I would never schedule an FCS team.


I will get screamed at for this next comment, but I believe,(at least in part), that Bronco left us, not only for the triple pay and the P5 status, but also in part because he did not want to ruin his own win/loss record, by going through the necessary growing pains that we are going through now, in order to be ready, should the P5 Conference call eventually come to our door.

Doesn’t look like Holmoe is listening to Jarom Jordan. Here’s our schedules for 2020 and 2021:

2020: 6 Home, 6 Road

Sept 3 – @ Utah
Sept 19 – @ Arizona State
Sept 26 – @ Minnesota
Oct 17 – HOUSTON
Oct 24 – @ Northern Illinois
Nov 7 – @ Boise State
Nov 28 – @ Stanford
Bowl TBD

That’s 6 P5s (and not bottom feeders!) and 5 upper tier G5s (all bowl teams this year) with one FCS.

2021: 5 Home, 5 Road, 1 Neutral, 1 left to schedule

Sept 2 – Arizona (Las Vegas)
Sept 11 – UTAH
Oct 1 – @ Utah State
Oct 16 – @ Baylor
Oct 23 – @ Washington State
Nov 20 – @ Georgia Southern
Nov 27 – @ Southern California

7 P5s (only AZ didn’t go to a bowl this year), 4 upper tier G5s, (all went to bowls), and 1 left to schedule.

Well, Utah got into a P-5 conference without playing a P-5 schedule like BYU. Let’s face it, BYU is an outcast when it comes to p-5 conferences. Do you really believe that the PAC 12 lefties like Stanford, USC, Cal, Washington and Colorado will ever vote to bring BYU into the PAC. Is the Big 12 (Little 10) ever going to accept BYU? As it is now BYU plays a better football schedule than about 8 out the ten Little 10 (er Big 12) schools. I can agree with your analysis but how much does it make a difference if BYU continues to lose to 4 out of five or six p-5 teams a year in football? I can see it both ways. I would like for us to get into the American Athletic Conference ASAP in all sports, or at least football and basketball and track and field and cross country. Most other Olympic sports like baseball, women’s softball, tennis and others can remain the same at least for now. Can BYU continue the arrangement with ESPN, the late late night football and men’s basketball? I believe that BYU is a good fit for basketball in the AAC, i.e. vs. Houston, SMU, Cincinnati, UCONN. I believe that our women’s basketball could compete in the AAC too.Are we ever going to get any where in the St. Zag league in basketball? I know that money ie a big thing, but what about conference championships in football? What year do you expect BYU to get into a P-5 conference (2021,2022, 2023, 2024). What year do we ever have a chance?

How about all of the BYU football injuries vs. P-5 teams, let’s see Squally Canada against Wisconsin., and most of the running backs and others against Utah. Most out for the season. Our big tight end against Washington. Can BYU ever get the four deep at each position vs. P-5 competition in order to sustain the depth to play against four or five P-5 teams? Koepena was injured somewhere in the season and against Utah. Is this a pipe dream. Can LDS players ever come out in depth to constantly compete at the P-5 level? Where are the three, four and five star players at BYU? Can we consistently recruit them?

Bob H: Those schedules look like suicide to me. Is BYU going to do this through 2021 and hope to recruit four and five star players consistently? It would be nice, but we need the recruit those type of players to even play .500 against those schedules.

I hear you, texcoug. Most P5 powers get to beat up on bottom feeding P5s in their own conference. We’re going to be facing a slew of teams that have been top 25 or 30 types in recent years (including the G5s!). Depth will be the key to survival.
We will likely never compete regularly for bunches of 5 stars, and sure we’d love to have them wanting to come, but there is another way to get there. My brother has coached a little high school football. He tells me that the star system is not reliable because stars are basically for sale. Kids whose support group support them for clubs, camps, highlight video distribution, etc… get higher ratings. Athletes who are just as good, but play out of position because of team needs, or at small schools or in schemes that don’t utilize them properly or that don’t go through all the hype stuff, get lower ratings. For example, he said Nate Upham, from Skyridge, who signed with BYU as a PWO is a steal who should have been a 4 star with lots of recruiting interest and should be a Mitch Matthews kind of guy at BYU. To me it looks like going after these lightly recruited athletes with speed and other skills who played out of position in hs and getting them on board as PWOs may help with depth and even produce some star players. Heard Ben Criddle say something similar about this the other day. He mentioned a list of Byu greats who were not big time recruits: Gifford Neilson, Jim McMahon, Steve Young, Sarkisian (jc guy), Dennis Pitta, Curtis Davis,Johnny Hartline, Tejon Coroma, Brady Andersen, and a bunch of others. PittaCame as a 5’9" walkon slot receiver. Went on a mission and grew. The key to recruiting is more than star value. It’s talent evaluation vis a vis your system and talent development. It’s riskier and may take an extra year to develolp a player, and there will be some misses, but if you are risking at the PWO level it’s worth it. I remember that about 19 guys from the 1984 National champions spent time in the NFL, but few we’re highly rated out of high school. Lavelle was great at finding and developing overlooked talent. Kakani must do the same, maybe better! We’ll see. Those schedules will be brutal.

When conference realignment happens the teams with the ability to attract the most eyeballs will have good shots at moving into the new system. The PAC 12 is struggling right now in all their big sports. They have the weakest voice in the country right now. It is so bad that they hired a PR firm to tell them what is obvious … you have to win important games to get noticed. BYU has to build up its program and win. Winning will take care of the problem of losing good athletes, who are great kids, to other schools. I think we are slowly getting there in FB. The star system is over rated. Speed and and athletic ability is a better gauge. We have to be smart recruiters and relentless in work ethic.

Sitake looks to have the tools and positivity to be that kind of guy. The Patriots are a good model. Build very good OL and DL with a good QB and many problems are solved. The RB’s and WR’s and skill people will start to come when they see a good QB and line. The theory that we drop into a conference of G5 teams is a losing theory all the way around. Money, athletes, TV, exposure, fan excitement, brand etc is all better with Indy. As for the WCC, the problem we are experiencing in that league is of our own making. We have to win more and make the NCAA tourney … which is the whole goal of a quality bb program. GU isn’t playkng bb to win the WCC!! They are playing to get a high seed in the NCAA’s and compete for national championships. We can do the same with a harder working, smarter coaching staff who has a high bb IQ! We don’t have those attributes in our current staff. We may not have those attributes in our AD administrative staff either. Lots of long term hanger on’ers! Holmoe being helped make good decisions by the Santiago’s of the world? We need to take a hard look at work ethic and performance and push out the lifers and those that don’t use accountability as a measuring stick of job performance.

Good post. New England does more with players nobody else wanted than any other team with less money. Work ethics and good coaching go a long way to improving a program

Who in their right mind, could actually believe that we could get Pac 12
Utah, USC, and Washington to come to Provo to play BYU if we were to water down our program? It’s the best home schedule in the history of BYU Football and much better than our NC season in 1984.

Add to these 3 PAC 12 teams coming to Provo, we have in the same 2019 season, Boise State coming to town.

Never in the history of BYU Football have we had such a powerful Group of Name Brand P5 teams all in the same season coming to our Home Field.

Tenneessee must be mentioned.

Hey, would anyone really rather give up this schedule to get more wins vs Idaho State, Weber State, SE Wyoning, or timbucktoo? Is a bowl really that important that one would rather have wins vs easier teams over the tough competition we now enjoy.

I repeat over and over again, I would rather----l o s e---- a tough fought competitive close game vs USC than to have a run away victory over Idaho State.

Thanks Bob H. Good post, thanks for the info. We do not need to play five or six P-5 top teams to make a difference in our image.

RU: You are over estimating the peaks and valleys of a BYU football schedule. How many of those gauntlet games verses those tough P-5 teams will BYU win in 2019? I am not sure. My biggest concern is how many injuries will we have in those games? We shall see.
How long will it ever take for BYU to get into a P-5 conference, if ever?

Yes it is really nice having those games at LES at BYU in Provo, Utah. No doubt about it and I would like to see that EVERY YEAR! But careful here which I am not being negative to my favorite school and BYU Football team. 1st four games all P5 - utha (yes I missed spell that but it sounds better - UTHA :smile: ) , @Tenn, USC and Washington. How many players going to be inured? Next 2 games on the road against Toledo & USF - long travel road games (hope we win those if not so bang up) but luckily we have a bye btwn them. Home with Boise State (can BYU win), @usu (scary), Liberty, Idaho St., @umass, @sdsu - (are we healthy enough to beat this one?).

Will BYU 3rd/4th/etc. string players going to be ready for this 2019 brutal season after those 4 tough September P5 games? I sure hope so but last year a lot of those freshman did step right in just fine and I hope 2019 will be better.

Every year during November has been depressing playing like those Idaho St. NM State, Umass, Bo Diddley Tech schools are depressing and I hate to see losing one of them when our players may be broken or lost.

But, can we play some few easy P5 games for example for 2019 like: Kansas, @Tenn, Oregon State, Washington and Utha in November like last year which are not so brutal. Yes I am happy playing those P5s at home this year.


You make some very good points. All is true which you post.
One must remember that we are going through all of this so that we will be ready if we get the coveted P5 conference call.

If the time does come, when we get a P5 conference call, we will be playing 9,
(not 4 or 5), but 9 P5 teams each and every season. Will we have fewer injuries playing 9 P5 teams from our own conference that we would get now playing only 4-5 P5 teams? Of course not. Every P5 team must go through this challenge.

So one might say, "Yeah, but if we were a P5 team, we would be able to recruit better and therefore we would have more quality depth. I would agree, however,
we must do what we must do first, in order to get the P5 Conference invite.


Perhaps I am overestimating the peaks and valleys of BYUFootball schedule, but I do truly believe that we are right on track for where we should be in our programming with few acceptions.

Those few exceptions would be that I would like to play more P5 teams, but P5 teams that we would be more likely to win and stay away from those P5 teams that we are more likely to lose to. I want to improve our win/Loss column vs. P5 teams.

Until we get the P5 conference invite, I would like to have no FCS teams on our schedule. Instead, I would like to have carefully selected MWC (teams) on the schedule that we are more likely to win than not.

Injuries are always a problem which we would all like to avoid, but it is part of the growing pains that we must go through in order to reach our goal.

None of us want our military kids to get killed or injured when we send them off to war, but it is unreal to believe that all will return as good or better than we send them off to fight. If the war is a good and just war, it is worth the sacrifice. If the war is not worth it, then perhaps the sacrifice is not worth it.

Perhaps we must decide what we really want and whether or not we are willing to make the sacrifices needed in order to get what we think we really want.

Interesting posts gentlemen. A lot of good ideas there from you all. We shall see what happens.


I totally agree with you. I must make it very clear, that my intent is to never ever be negative about my school and BYU Cougar Football Team. I love them both (EACH A PART OF THE OTHER).

It is out of my love for BYU and our BYU Cougar Football team, that I make suggestions on how I believe that we must go forward. I spend 8 hours per day, 5-6 days per week, studying every detail that hits the news. Some times I feel very critical of what I read, not because I am down on the school or the team, but because I want our school and our team to be all that it can be. We are already very, very good. I want us to be great.
I don’t want us to get involved in controversial political issues. I don’t want us to be in the business of judging our brothers and sisters. I don’t want us to set up roadblocks that keep some of our most talented from succeeding. I want us to be good and loving and accepting of all of our students. I want us to realize that when we, if not Bishops or Stake Presidents,
or above, are judging our brothers and sisters, we are going against the teachings of the Bible and the D&C.


If I were dictator, and there was nobody to stop me, and therefore, scheduling would not be a problem, I would use the computer and knowledge of those much smarter than I, to determine whom the 9 weakest P5 teams in the Nation are along with 3 G5 teams from MWC that are in the middle of their pac and play them each season. The teams would vary only when there are up or down years for those teams which we play against.

With a schedule like this, we could almost satisfy those of us that have a need to play more P5 teams, while almost satisfy those others that have a need for more wins.