Jordan Chatman transfers

This is a blow to BYU, no other way to paint it but Chatman wants to start and there was just no way he could do it at BYU. Enrolled in BYU law school and graduated BS degree in just two years, Chatman will play next season so I would think he is headed to UVU to play for coach Pope.

This leaves a huge hole for Rose to fill with an already lean guard group. Who gets to fill in for the LP boys? Enter Zac Frampton.

On the one hand, Having another LP boy from the national champ team and synergy makes perfect sense but on the other hand as Jim would put it, " We[re starting to look like inbred polygamists about now".


Well… here is just another example of the problems associated with BYU’s recruiting style and living in the bubble.

Everyone thinks that the LP boys are taking this team to a final four.

I happen to think it is a load of you know what… honestly, this is the biggest impediment to the success of the athletic programs at BYU. They simply can’t and won’t look beyond the reach of their own backyard.

Before anyone disagrees, consider this - yes, he was recruited and yes, he showed a lot of promise, I think we can agree on this. But, I can imagine the conversation going something like this.

Rose - Hey Jordan, we think you are a good player, but we’ve hired the former coach at Lone Peak and we have these guys that were really good in high school.

Jordan - Okay, so what are you saying coach?

Rose - We really believe that these guys can take us to the promised land so you probably won’t be playing very much in the coming years.

Jordan - Well… if that’s what you think, I want to play so I’m out of here.

Rose - Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, we don’t need anyone but the LP boys…

One last thought… Chatman is a smart dude and I believe he saw how the team underperformed last season because of selfish play. I don’t think the culture changed enough for him. I think he believes that Emery, who thinks he is the next Jimmer, will continue his selfish ways. Jordan didn’t play enough with Fischer on the team, how can he expect to play with Haws there as well. Also, Bryant is a fantastic talent, but wait and see if Haws and Emery (the LP wonderkids) don’t get close to 35+ minutes a game this upcoming season…

Jordan is not enrolled in BYU Law. He was accepted, but the law school won’t let him play ball and attend law school at the same time (according to Jordan’s dad), so he is looking for another law school that will let him play ball and go to school at the same time.

So Kay, are you saying this has less to do with dissatisfaction with his role on the team and more with his desire to go to law school AND play basketball? At any rate, it’s an unfortunate loss. He was the quickest and best defender among the guards. Seemed to under-perform offensively, though.

This is my thought on the questions you posed

Firstly, I don’t understand why the law school won’t allow him to do both. Regardless, based on what he experienced last season, the move shouldn’t surprise anyone.

Yes, agree and something that BYU severely lacked last season. Everyone should know that the teams that go a long way in the tournament know how to play defense… it wins championships.

The reason for this is a lack of on the court time and not being a gunner/realizing that defense is as much a part of the game as offense.

I really believe that BYU’s philosophy is a big contributor to why they aren’t making progress in the wcc or ncaa tournaments, combined with the favoritism shown Gonzaga of course. I can, and will, change my opinion based on further evidence… if there is any.

John, I don’t know anything about his satisfaction with his role. I was just relaying that what his father has said. Jordan wants to go to law school and play basketball. BYU law school says he can study there, but not play ball at the same time.

When I was at BYU law school, there were no college football or basketball players also attending school. However, one of the Oates brothers (I think it was Brad) who was playing professional football, was in some of my classes during the second semester when the pro season was over. Bart Oates did the same thing while he was playing pro ball.

There were also a few students who had played college ball, but they had finished their eligibility before attending law school.

The only way I can see anyone going to law school and playing ball full time is to go to law school part time. Not many law schools are set up to allow that. And I have my doubts as to whether the NCAA will allow for it. I doubt the ABA has set up a process to grant permission for it either.
Starting some less demanding program, like a joint MBA?JD but with the MBA classes front loaded and taking a law school class on the side, assuming admittance and permission of course seems more likely.

Part time law school with filling in the other classes from another program to fill the NCAA full time student requirement looks like the most reasonable possibility to me. But what schools with part time law programs have decent bball teams? SMU maybe?

Horse pucky! Steve Young did it. Others have. Lame excuse from an average player. Won’t be missed…

Bunch of hockey puck! Stanford manages it. Harvard does it. BYU can do it too and does. Another crybaby who won’t compete hard and get better. Just a microcosm of these whiny young kids today. They want equal time, equal pay without more effort.

NCAA doesn’t allow it? Show me the rule…nonsense.

Are you saying that Steve Young was in law school at BYU while he played football for BYU?

Yes, that is what he said. Though whether he meant to remains to be seen…

And no Steve Young did not do law school as an NCAA athlete.
The only athletes that I’m aware of that finished law school while athletes did it because of the off season and the willingness of law schools to let a student go full time part year.

Law school I think would be doable while an NCAA athlete except for the IL year I think. If Chatman were willing to sit out a year of bball to complete 1L year and then not be fully completed by the time he’s off scholarship it might work as well. But even then the school would have to be much more flexible than most law schools tend to be.

The NCAA requires student athletes to be full time athletes. Sorry if you missed that little caveat.
What I said was that the only reasonable way to be a full time scholarship athlete and meet the demands of law school is to be a part time student. And No the NCAA does not allow for it.
IL of law school just doesn’t work well for a bball athlete who starts practice in the fall and continues all the way through spring…The other years of law school: not problem but IL year is a thing unto itself.

Do you have proof about the NCAA?

NEWARK — The circulation desk was still closed early on a recent Monday morning in the Peter W. Rodino Jr. Library, on the fourth level of the Seton Hall School of Law, where Braeden Anderson settled by a desk in the corner. He flipped an accordion-size textbook to Page 563.

Just outside, pale sunlight cast the hallways in a periwinkle glaze, nearly matching the color on the coffee mug resting before him, with Seton Hall’s logo, a patch-eyed pirate, splashed across it. The watch on Anderson’s left wrist read 7:35 a.m. Like most of the other first-year law students, he had almost every minute of the unfolding day mapped out. Except that his schedule included basketball practice that afternoon. -

Like I said, where did you get the idea the NCAA doesn’t allow athletes to be law students? Obviously it does and I don’t see how it could stop someone legally…

It was inevitable that somebody would leave. It happens every year. It sounds like he has his head on straight and understands his future isn’t basketball but he would still like to play but the BYU law school won’t allow it. It sounds like he left because BYU wasn’t a good fit for him to both play basketball and study law. It is too bad he was one of the guards who was being counted on. I don’t see this as a knock on BYU recruiting at all.

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I did not say that the NCAA could stop someone becoming a law student. It cannot. It can stop a school from allowing a particular student from competing for that school. It does this frequently.
I further stated “What I said was that the only reasonable way to be a full time scholarship athlete and meet the demands of law school is to be a part time student.”

That Seton Hall Law, has different standards than I do, and apparently than BYU’s J. Reuben Clark Law School. is not all that surprising either. Further a quick glance at the Seton Hall Law web site shows that in fact they are one of the schools with a decent, bball program and an existing program for part time law school. Given that situation, which is not the case at BYU, a student could be part time during the school year, make up the hours in the summer and still meet the NCAA hours requirements. Such a situation is not all that uncommon for athletes. It is uncommon though for law schools. The NCAA give athletes five years of eligibility and as per the page I noted above, only looks at the yearly totals not the per term totals in accounting for eligibility. It is a rare student athlete, like Chatman, who would ever face the problem of trying to meet the requirements of law school and an academic scholarship. If Chatman had only a year left, instead of three, it would probably be easier to create an acceptable situation at BYU or most law schools. That appears to be the case for the player in the article you linked to. The rest of the interesting article shows that Anderson too had a difficult time finding a place to play ball and do law school. It also gives only one other example of a player that the author could find who had done 1L and basketball. Chatman is trying to do what no other athlete had done–law school completed while still in the five year window for NCAA eligibility.

Kudo’s to Chatman, and the fellow you found for being willing to do what is necessary to follow their dreams. People sometimes are willing to do the unreasonable to fill their dreams.
Certainly Steve Young’s path of doing law school while in the off season didn’t seem reasonable to many people at the time.

I don’t see anything that says the NCAA can stop a player from playing college ball because he or she is a law student. That’s what you wrote. What this college or that college does isn’t what I’m asking. Show me that the NCAA can stop anyone from playing because they are a law student?

no that is not what I said.I reiterate in quotes for you.
“The only way I can see anyone going to law school and playing ball full time is to go to law school part time. Not many law schools are set up to allow that. And I have my doubts as to whether the NCAA will allow for it”

that you read my sentence to say that I have doubts that the NCAA would allow for an athlete to go to law school instead of go to law school part time…sorry…