Let’s Brain Storm: (The operative word is NEW)

Starting at the end of this season or sooner,
What can the BYU University do (new), legally and morally , (including changing some past policies), that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?

What can the AD due (new) legally and morally, including changing some past policies, that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?

Starting at the end of this season or sooner,
What can coaches do (new), legally and morally , (including changing some past policies), that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?

Starting at the end of this season or sooner,
What can fans and donors, coaches and players, the University and the AD department do (new), legally and morally , (including changing some past policies), that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?

Starting at the end of this season or sooner,
What can the Wards, the Stakes, the Regions, the Church, do (new), legally and morally , (including changing some past policies), that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?

Not a reply, but an addendum to brain storming above.

Can we really expect positive results playing vs teams with many 4-5 star players when we have only 2-3 star players.

Can we really be ready to except an invitation and be successful in a P5 conference 7 years from now in 2024, when the new TV contracts are being negotiated and P5 conferences are expected to expand to 14-16 teams in each conference.

Should we back off now and win more games by playing weaker teams that we know we can beat, or should we sacrifice some losses in order to get all the experience we can get, playing as many P5 teams as possible, during this 7 year period before the big expected P5 expansion.

We can’t bury our heads in the sand and believe and have faith that when the time comes, 7 years from now, that we will be okay and ready. Faith without works is dead. BYU without the proper preparation and experience playing those tuff P5 teams, will be doomed to mid major for ever more.

I’m not coveting 4 and 5 star athletes who don’t naturally want to be here. That is, I’m not interested in “moral and legal” ways to entice players to come play for us when what they want is to go to USC/Alabama and go to the NFL — and playing for BYU isn’t a natural wish for them. I’d rather maintain our program with the best players we can get to come here, but realistically, that is not going to be the 4 and 5 star ones, usually.

And I’m okay with that. Even if eventually, we drop down to Division 2 (FCS, or whatever they call it in the future). The climate is not what it was in the 1970s to 1990s, and we don’t need to do things at all costs to try and keep up with the P5.

I wouldn’t be opposed to the G5 teams forming their own association, and letting the big conferences do their own thing. They do, anyway. And, realistically, we match up better right now with Sun Belt, C-USA, MAC, etc, teams. I think that’s where things are going, even if we can turn things around.

Again, I see BYU as a G-5 conference team. Rubicon: I agree with your assessment. I can see us playing in a competitive G-5 conference with the type of exposure that we can now obtain with our ESPN deal or something like it. I would love to see BYU in a P-5 conference, but I really find it not very probable.

Ron,
I do not want 4 and 5 star players who don’t share our values to come play for us so we can win more games. They would only be unhappy and cause problems with the coaches and teammates for challenging the honor code, That honor code is an important part of what makes BYU a special place. The P5 monopoly on big college football bowl money is not likely to change now or in seven years. Fro what I saw, painfully, last night, even the very best players would have struggled in that game with some of the poor coaching decisions that were made by a coaching staff with little experience at this level of play. I don’t see any major changes coming in the next six years that would make a P5 conference interested in including BYU football. I could see BYU helping to lead the way for organizing a G5 conference association, with a little help from ESPN. I am a fan of Cougar football when the players are coached well and playing on a level playing field. Let’s hope that happens sooner rather than later.

News flash to all of you wishing for a G5 conference or FCS schedule…ESPN will put their money back in their pockets faster than BYU fans can empty our stadium in a Wisc blowout. The solution is better coaching schemes and probably better coaches over all. We may have made a major mistake on not hiring Ken … Navy guy. No one wanted to see the pass go away at BYU but I guarantee you we would have a better win loss record. We have to be inventive on offense the way we were when Doug and Lavell started the passing game. The novelty wore off because everyone copied it with generally better athletes on the field. Navy should be our clone… Go get the coach we should have gotten to begin with.

For all the boosters who called to complain that Holmoe shouldn’t hire the Navy guy because the pass wouldn’t be emphasized, look what we have now. Navy has higher passing yards per game than BYU… They can’t recruit 4 or 5 star athletes!!
We made a major mistake.

1 Like

BYU will never be P5. Like or dislike it, the honor code and LDS religious system will keep that from happening. I agree with the guy earlier in this thread when he said maybe BYU should become FCS. I’ll admit this is mostly selfish, as then they would likely be playing my local university, so I could see them for cheap :slightly_smiling_face:

We didn’t turn Ken N. down, he wanted to stay at Navy. He was BYU’s first choice.

I’m not panicking. The vast majority of you guys sound like you haven’t coached much. Sometimes the wheels come off, even for good coaches. How you respond to that is a big part of what distinguishes between a good coach and a great coach.

I still believe in Sitake and Detmer. This season is a dumpster fire, but let’s see how the next three years go. I think we will respond well and play much more competitively than this year.

Now, as to whether we can limp out of here with a winning record or not this year . . .

1 Like

Did I say they would be a P5? You must have been reading the wrong post.

Rubicon,

I think that it is thinking like yours, and many like you, that keeps BYU Cougars from being all that they could be.

You look for negative things that are not there in the post, like your comment,

" I’m not interested in “moral and legal”, or your comment like,

“ways to entice players to come play for us when what they want is to go to USC/Alabama and go to the NFL, and playing for BYU isn’t a natural wish” etc.

“I’d rather maintain our program with the best players we can get to come here,”

and worst of all, you state, " I’m okay with that. Even if eventually, we drop down to Division 2 (FCS, or whatever they call it in the future). ". we match up better right now with Sun Belt, C-USA, MAC, etc, "

To add insult to injury, you state:," I think that’s where things are going, even if we can turn things around.
Sad for our cougars. " Very, very sad.

With enough fans, believing like you do, the Cougars are doomed.

I must have clicked the wrong arrow. I was responding to the guy earlier in the thread that mentioned P5.

txcoug,

So far. this season, we have won one game in six. That one game was vs. FCS Division 2, below ranking of 130, Portland State.

The teams that we lost to is now ranked as #10 Wisconsin, #18 Utah, #21 Miss. St., #28 LSU and we, # 86 us, just lost to
#93 Utah State.

Since the loss at #93 Utah St., it is almost a foregone conclusion that we will now lose to #60 Boise State and the following week to #21 MISSISSIPPI ST.

So what is left this season is #110, Fresno St., #117 UNLV, #122 San Jose St., and #128 UMASS.

So, if we win all of those teams that it is possible to win, that will give us a 5-8 losing season, with no bowl game, and a record for this year, of not being able to win any team that is not ranked above 110 out of 130 teams.

I can’t understand, why fans can not see that we need to do some things differently and try to get some stronger more athletic players. I believe that we have the best coaches that we can possibly get with our restrictions. I repeat myself from an earlier post that we can not make sweet orange juice out of lemons. We can not compete vs. power 5 conferences using only G5 or less players.

In comparison to where we have fallen, not only with Utah, and not only with TCU, each of which use to be our peers, we must now look at where MWC teams like #16 SDS, #49 Colorado State, #60 Boise State, #77 Air Force, #82 Wyoming,
and now #91 Hawaii and # 93 Utah State has scored above us, leaving only Fresno State and San Jose State in the MWC below us.

I don’t know what has to be fixed, but definitely something has to be fixed. No time in my life time do I remember us falling so low.

The big question is, do we give up now? Do we take the easy way out and go to FCS where we can win games. or
Do we fight for respect and work hard for respect, and make necessary changes from that which no longer works. Are we quitters. I hope not.

Do I think that we keep getting worse than before? NO !! I just think that the other teams have just gotten better and we have not kept up.

BYUCompass,

Did you read in my post, " legally and morally ," Do LDS players have a monopoly on Morally?

“What can the Wards, the Stakes, the Regions, the Church, do (new), legally and morally , (including changing some past policies), that could bring more 4-5 star players to BYU?” Does this really sound to you like I am suggesting that we go to high crime and/or immoral neighborhoods to bring criminals, rapist, thieves, alcoholics, or druggies on campus? Is this to suggest that 4-5 star players fit this description and 0, 1,2,3 star players do not?? Shush !!!

Thawk,

I may be wrong on this one, but it is my belief that the Navy coach was recruited, but he chose to stay with Navy.

Thehonesttruth,

I do not see your comment as selfish. I just see a different value system.
Your value system is to see us play teams that we can always win; Be in a conference where we can be the main big team; We may start out on top, but like our position now, compared to the MWC now, we will eventually drop in that level also.

My different value system, not better, but different, is that I always want us to strive to be better. I want to work towards first being good enough to get into one of the best conferences, and be respected as being one of the best players in the nation.

Eventually, I want to be able to compete in the middle of the pac or better in one of the best conferences in the nation. Eventually, I want to be thought of as being as good as Boston College, Baylor, TCU, Utah, and Norte Dame. It won’t be easy, but I don’t want us to give up on that effort.

Winning games, having winning seasons, getting bowl games, is not nearly as important to me as playing with the best teams in the nation and being recognized as being a major player in the Nation.

Rubicon,

“The vast majority of you guys sound like you haven’t coached much. "
“I still believe in Sitake and Detmer.” " We didn’t turn Ken N. down, he wanted to stay at Navy. He was BYU’s first choice.”

I totally agree with all that you said in this post.

Yes, Ron, I did read your post. I noticed the part where you mention “changing some past policies” that would bring more 4 and 5 star players to BYU. What did you have in mind? My thoughts are that the top three reasons these players choose other schools are: These schools have more successful football programs because of better coaching and much bigger financial resources; These schools offer greater flexibility in chosen lifestyles (even those with high moral standards often find the Honor Code too restrictive); and These schools are often located in areas less isolated from the world to which they are accustomed. They are not criminals, rapists, thieves or alcoholics, but may believe in cohabitation before marriage, a cold beer on a hot day, or growing facial hair or long locks if they so choose. I do not want the Honor Code to change to accommodate these young men, but I am realistic in my expectation that few will accept the lifestyle BYU expects.

1 Like

RU: Your No. 93 Utah State post I can a lot of what you are saying. But I do not think that the Board of Directors wants BYU to lose its soul to get into a P-5 conference. This year is just a situation where we lost two QB’s and we have played such a schedule through Wisconsin minus Portland State that I believe that we are banged up bad. Our RB’s, except for Squally Canada are RM types and 3 stars or less athletes.I agree that the other schools have and are past us. Do we go back to G-5 or try for P-5? That is the question.

Right on BYU campass. I agree with your post.

BYUCampus,

You did bring up a couple items which I had not thought of such as facial hair or locks. Yes I can see that this could be a problem if a top 4-5 star athlete was given a chance to play anywhere in the Nation he wishes with his locks and/or facial hair or he must shave and wear short hair at BYU. Yeah, you are correct. To probably most on this site, having short hair and having a clean shave is more important than having a 4-5 athlete.

Reminder, Ty Detmer was not a member of the Church when he was recruited. I may be wrong, but I believe tha Jaamal Willliams was not a member of the Church when he came to BYU. Someone took a chance on these guys. Maybe they are the exception to the rule.

Maybe, sooner than you might believe, the honor code will ligjten up a bit on the facial hair issue and the locks issue.
I have heard rumblings. Hey we now have coke on campus and advertise it on our networks. Anything is possible.

What I had in mind, regarding change, was a more active role with the Wards, Stake Centers, Regions in identifying those 4-5 star players in their jurisdiction and incouraging them to the degree that it is legal and moral. This is something that has not been tried before to my knowledge. Admittenly, I may be wrong in this area.