Let's all try harder to get along with those sharing the world we live in., especially regarding the football world

I am guilty of thinking differently than the majority on this board.While most feel that we are better than most people in the non LDS world, I feel that there are many in the non LDS world that is as good or better than we, me included, is/are.

My reasons are that I lived in California for most of my life in the field of education having taught every grade from the 3rd to the University Level to post graduate level during the 32 years that I taught school before retiring.

During that time most of the teachers were non LDS. Most of the students were non LDS. Most of the parents of the students were non LDS and most of the business dealings that I have had has been with non LDS.

HAVNG SAID THAT, I have know many dedicated people, that love the Lord but do not carry their religion on their shirt sleeve. They do not brag that there church is better than every other church. They, many of them, not all of them, belong to organizations dedicated to help those in need, i.e hungry, homeless poor, in our own country and around the world. Many belong to groups trying to help refugees.

I never see or hear any of them putting down other religions or institutions of learning.
Most sound like professional adults that would never stoop to saying what I have is better than what you have, even if it were true. None come across as being arrogant.
None ask for special privileges because of their Phd’s that others do not have.

I have never heard anyone say that “ My Mercedes is better than your BMW”
Or my 2 bedroom 2 bath home on the water at Newport Beach is better than your
6800’sq home in Beverly Hills, or Bell Aire, or Brentwood.

My point is, if you feel that what you have is better than what others have, you don’t need to be obnoxious about it. Enjoy it. Share it with those that want to be a part of it, but don’t be arrogant about it.

Some of my replies to some, not all, have not been allowed. I have not ignore your post. I just have not found a way to answer some of them like to the person that asked what made me think that Jesus had facial hair.

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The reason you think Jesus had facial hair is because artist painted him with facial hair. There have been people who said they saw His face and painted Him without facial hair.

All the people who you think feel they are better than others because they are LDS mostly don’t. They simply want them to receive their ordinances required for Eternal Glory. And we know one way to be a member missionary is to be a good example. Does that always equate to holier than thou to you?

Spot up Ron. I am a ward mission leader and we desire to share what we have and allow people to make their own choices whether they would like to accept what is offered. If they don’t, we don’t abandon them, we love them no matter what. Who cares about facial hair? Many a prophet sported beards as it was the custom at that time-just as it was during Christ’s ministry, but frankly, i never gave it a second thought. My father-in-law quit being a temple worker because they were allowing people in the temple with beards. I can’t see the rationale that people use. Very frustrating some times

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Thank you and thank you and thank you again for your brave response. Being a mission Ward leader, you many be leaving yourself open to criticism or at least many questions regarding your openness. I certainly do appreciate it and consider it a brave move on your part.

There is so much good in this world that we coud be doing with all the time and effort we put into finding fault with others, which does little, if any good at all.

LDS apostle M. Russell Ballard used his Brigham Young University devotional address
Tuesday to say, among other things, that: “I am a general authority but that doesn’t make me an authority in general,”

He then quipped. “I worry that members expect too much from their leaders and teachers, expecting them to be experts [in areas and topics] well beyond their expertise"

If you have a question that requires an expert, please take the time to find an expert to help you.”

I have been taught all of my life, that those words and councils that come from the General Authorities, come from two sources. 1. from revalation and 2. opinion.

Some times our memebers put too much pressure, in my opinion, as we expect that everything said and done is by revelation.

When I ask that we find some way, to make our football more competative, I am N O T asking that we go against Church Doctrine, against morality, or that we take alcohol, drugs, or sexual conduct out of the Honor Code as some have suggested, but instead, I have asked that we find some experts to help us find a way to attract more 4-5 star athletes into our program so that we could be more successfully competative vs the teams we now play.

I have suggested that maybe, we could have the requirement that the Athletic Director be LDS in good standing and hire at will, any Head Coach, under the supervision of the AD, that could bring our team the shot in the arm for success that we so sorely need.

What Utah Utes did in hiring Urban Myers was brilliant and after getting the Utes into not one, but 2 BCS bowls, which they won, and into a Pac 10-12 conference which they have become very competative in, Myers left for Florida and got them a National Championship and than to Ohio State to get them 2 national championships and since then, they are consistanty in the top 10 and most often, in the top 5.

In the Meantime, his assistant, Kyle Whittingham learned enough from Myers, that he himself, Whittingham, has been able to continue with that success in the Pac12.

Just recently, this season, I believe that we lost our top 3 potential recruits to Utah because they are being successful and we are not. I do not want our program to die on the vine. I want experts to determine what must be done and what could be changed in order to make our program survive and thrive.

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I don’t want to be disrespectful to you or to anyone else. Our thinking and our belief is so far apart as to what each of us consider to be good, pure, important, and correct, that I fear that there is not much of anything that we will agree on.

Hopefully, after time, and if we remain respectful to each other and to our differences, we may find something that we can learn from each other. I do hope so.

Check the description of Jesus in Josephus… he describes him with a beard…

Also, a beard in biblical times was deemed to be a “man”,and was very common among the Israelite’s… you kind find all kinds of interesting things if you google them…

The long hair of the Savior is the part most people believe because of paintings. One of the first painting of Christ, the artist gave him long hair because at the time of the painting, women were considered to be more religious than men.

I learned this at BYU’s Joseph Smith Symposium a few years back… I would suggest anyone living in the Salt Lake Valley area to look for this Symposium in Oct, it is free and really worth the trip to BYU.

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No, that is Scott just being Scott… He likes to stir it up…

Oh, and you don’t stir things up :wink:

What do you think about the “Heaven is for Real” connection with the girl who painted the face of her vision and was the same for the little boy in the movie? He has a beard…

Ron - I agree with most of what you say. But you can’t compare BYU to Utah football. Apples and oranges. Between our academic standards, Honor Code, LDS School, religious prejudice, etc, no one should compare us to any other school regarding football. If you want to say Utah has been better than us on the field over the past several years, that’s fine. But that would be like saying the Patriots are better than the U of Utah. Totally different challenges.

Never said I didn’t…

Just trying to help Ron understand your personality.

Yea, the academic standards at Utah are way harder than BYU’s… :wink:

While I agree both schools have different issues, the only real difference is the HC. I believe in the Lavell days, there were a lot more prejudice towards the church, but I think between what Coach Edwards did and What President Hinckley did, a lot of that has been diminished… Yes you have stupid students who do stupid things… but then every university has those idiots as well.

But at least they are not throwing heated coins at the players (Wyoming fan in the 70’s) or Urine bag (Colorado State in the 60’s and 70’s)…

What’s my personality?

I understand what your are saying Ron. BYU has several disadvantages that top ranked schools don’t face starting with available top notch coaches. Edwards had the advantage of offensive coordinators who were literal geniuses at implementing sophisticated passing oriented offenses that the "three yards and a cloud of dust"offenses that were typical of the era. Today every one is sophisticated. BYU also doesn’t pay real well so thats another factor. BYU has mostly always suffered a lack of team speed, especially in the secondary which mandated playing 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. Recruting-well of course you lose recruits who simply don’t want to be subjected to the standards demanded at BYU, but you actually gain recruits that prefer that atmosphere. BYU has had there share of great athletes. The biggest problem I see is that everyone wants a return to the 80’s style of offense that Detmer was so successful with. The quarterbacks are probably in place for the future, maybe the running backs and tight end looks ok, so that leaves the OL AND WIDE OUTS as the big problem and of course the coaching is paramount. I was disappointed that BYU didn’t land the Navy coach. These are the coaches to keep an eye on. Successful coaches that win consistently with less available talent and are playing good competition. Of course this probably might mean a different style of offense aka Navy, Army etc. Watch and see if BYU can win their last two games with a freshman qb against squads with losing records. If they lose this program is really in disarray which may need a house cleaning or settle for the old WAC status. The last thing to remember is none of these coaches have ever been head coaches before coming to BYU except for Lamb and I think you are seeing a little inexperience. Take care Ron


THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY. I really appreciate reading your posting and I totally agree with vast majority of it.

I really don’t think that our receivers put forth the effort, probaby because of the lack of skill, speed, and perhaps some coaching, that our great receivers in the past has displayed, and I include in that element of greatness, our current receivers coach, Ben Cahoon, but also, Austin Collie, Phil Odle, Cody Hoffman Eric Drage, Maargin ooks, Andy Boyce, Reno Mahe, Mark Bellini from our Nation Championship team, Glen Kozlowskifrom our Natiionship team, and Chuck Cutleer from our Nation Championship team.

For the first time, last week, S.Canada, showed that he may have some of the skill of Jaamal Williams, Luke Staley,
Harvy Unga, Curtisa Brown, Matt Belllini, Ronnie Jenkins, Todd Christensen.

I think, as you said, we had something in our glory years that threw the other teams we played off guard.
I think that it is time for us to be creative once again and come up with something different that other teams we play are not use to and don’t yet know how to handle.

Thinking back of the Gary Crowton years, his greatest assets during his best years at BYU and at Oregon, and at LSU, was that he had plays that other teams did not now or understand. Once they found out how to deal with his plays, and those plays became common knowledge, he was no longer that great or that good as a coach.

I liked Gary, but he did not keep up with the needed changes and when his old ways no longer worked, he had no answer with new ideas. I think that BYU is in that same position today. We keep doing what once worked but no longer does, and we are not keeping up with the needed changes, and therefore, we are falling behind. We need to find what needed changes we can make and do it now.

At this point, I want to keep all of our current coaches and I want all of those current coaches to figure out what has to be done, and than do it.


I think that you and I have had some experiences in the Church, in the cougar football team, that others posting here have not yet experienced. I believe in our better days, we were more tolorant, more forgiving and more inclusive with the exception of racial issues. There always seems to be some issue, first the black issue, next the Latino issue and now the LGBT issue. The issue changes but the fact that we still target people continues. We seem to alway have a need to find some one that is less holy, or less acceptable, or less good than ourselves. I think that is sad. I think that instead of concentrating on what some may consider the liabilities of a person, we should instead spend that energy on finding the assets of the person. Look for thorns and the world if full of thorny bushes. Look for roses and they are so plentyful that one need not worry about the thorns on that rose bush. The good beauty outways the bad thorns, and with proper care, we can all be more blessed with the beauty.


Do you remember when Wyoming fans use to throw their been cans at the BYU fans. Some of the cans where empty, but there were also some hurtful full cans. Thanks goodness that beer cost a lot of money now or many more of those missels would have been full. Those were the days. "Awe yes, a great man once said, “I would rather lose in Wyoming and live in Provo than win in Wyoming and have to live there” I think the exact words was Laramy and not Wyoming.


I agree with you that in the last decade, comparing BYU football to Utah football, is like comparing apples and oranges,
or in my words, it is more like comparing sweet orange juice to sour lemon juice with no sugar.

Before Urban Myers, who made the ncecessary changes with the blessing of the AD and administration, we were like comparing sweet tangerines with tangerines, with each of us thriving to be sweet orange jucie. One made it while the other did not.

In the past decade, with all the necessary changes that were made in the Utah Utes program, they became the sweet orange juice and with the lack of necessary changes, BYU has become the sour lemon juice that can not even win a #120 team in the Nation, UMASS as we sit in the stands and watch them beat us 16-10. We are not talking about Wisconsin, LSU, Miss. St., Utah Utes, or even Boise State. We are now talking about #`120 in the nation out of 130 teams than now beats us 16-10 and the actual game was much worse than the score indicates.

I am not sure that you understand that even academically, Utah has supassed us with their respected research programs.

When speaking of the honor code, you must remember that Utah still has the majority of it’s staff, it’s students, and it’s athletes and it’s fan as LDS.

Utah University is still in the State of Utah and Utah still has a majority of it’s residents LDS.

We are too quick to insult our brothers and sisters to the North as not having standands, expressing again, that we are not only better than non LDS, but that we are better than LDS from a different University.

You talk about people being more predjuice against LDS from Provo than they are against the LDS from Salt Lake City.
Perhaps, the LDS from Provo act more, speak more, are more things that causes people to hate us than the LDS from Salt Lake City.

I believe that Floyd knows what I am taking about, and I believe that Sun Dance knows what I am taking about.

I don’t believe that grasshopper and others on this board that agrees with him, will ever understand what I talking about, which is to be more civil with our dealing with those in society and not with just those that think and believe as we do in Provo.

What you really mean is that the LDS north of Provo are more worldly. Got it :slight_smile:

No grasshopper, that is not what I mean and I think that you know what I really mean, which is what I said.

I re-read it again and it just appears to mean that those north of Provo accept sinful worldly behavior such as LGBT acts more than those in Provo do.