Newest un-confirmed rumor egarding football EXPANSION

There is a new rumor that may blow your mind.
Brace yourself for the possible formation of a New Conference

Remember when the 16 team WAC broke into two separate conferences? This, if if happens, will be even more alarming. If it happens, the schedules are already set for the first 3 seasons.

Division					         Divison

1.	Notre Dame				1.	Navy
2.	TCU					        2.	Air Force
3.	SMU					3.	Army
4.	Baylor					4.	Utah
5.	Boston College			5.	Boise State
6.	BYU					        6.	Houston
     Schedule for first three seasons, (If indeed it does happen) Still unconfirmed.
     Print and save.

Notre Dame VS.				NAVY VS.
1.	TCU					        1.	ARMY
2.	SMU					2. 	AIR FORCE
3.	Baylor					3.	BOISE STATE
4.	Boston College			4.	HOUSTON
5.	BYU					        5.	UTAH
6.	Utah					6.	BYU
7-12   Open                                     7-12    OPEN

1.	SMU					1.	NAVY
2.	Baylor					2.	AIR FORCE
3.	Boston College			3.  	SMU
4.	BYU					        4.	Boise State
5.	Utah					5.	Houston
6.	Notre Dame				6.	Utah
7-12  Open					7-12   Open

SMU VS.					        Air Force
1.	Baylor					1.	Army
2.	Boston  College			2.	Navy
3.	BYU 					3.	SMU
4.	Utah					4.	Boise State
5.	Notre Dame				5.	Houston
6.	TCU					        6.	Utah
7-12 Open (A-!) ARMY			7-12    open

Baylor VS					Boise State Vs.
1.	Boston College			1.	Navy
2.	BYU					        2.	Army
3.	Utah					3.	Air Force
4.	Notre Dame				4.	Baylor*
5.	TCU                                         5.	Houston
6.	SMU					6.	Utah
7-12 Open(1-A) Boise State		7-12    Open

Boston College Vs.				Houston Vs.
1.	BYU					        1.	Boise State
2.	Utah					2.	 Navy
3.	Notre Dame				3.	Air force
4.	TCU					        4.	Army
5.	SMU					5.	Utah
6.	Baylor					6.	Boston  College*
7-12   Open (A-1) Houston		7-12 	Open

BYU Vs. 					        Utah vs.
1.	Utah					1.	BYU
2.	Notre Dame				2.	Boston College
3.	TCU					        3.	Baylor
4.	SMU					4.	SMU
5.	BAYLOR				        5.	TCU
6.	BOSTON COLLEGE		6.	Nortre Dame
7-12   OPEN (A-1) NAVY			7.	Navy
						        8.	Air Force
						        9.	Boise State
						       10.	Army
						       11.	Houston
						       12 	Open


Ron, I like the way you are thinking, but this dream is almost as likely as the Big Ten conference actually making a decision in the next four years regarding expansion. There are too many egos involved and a lot of animosity out there toward BYU. There may be some big money that some programs are not willing to share even if it makes their program stronger. I share your dream, but reality makes it just wistful thinking.

Mark, I totally agree with you on all counts.
Until we learn to stay out of politics, and until
we learn to judge not, lest we be judged, and
leave all judging to God, we will continue to
have animosity towards us. As we sew, so shall
we reep.

We keep burning bridges.

I love how some people blame BYU and the church over the fact that BYU is not in a power conference. Staying true to principles is now perceived by some as meddling in politics. Being true to principles will always draw animosity from the wicked.


WHAT NEED IS IT OF YOURS, that you must put people down and acuse them of being less good and less faithful than yourself. That is quite arogant and part of our problem.

It is not my opinion but it is a fact, that a very significant percentage of the Callifornia community has taken a very negative view of the Church since the Prop 8 election when the big push orchestrated from Utah affected our elections in California. The courts over ruled the outcome, and therefore no good was served. Only the bad results linger today.

The anger went deeper than the LGBT community. It was the crossing of state lines to affect a change in the election.
Add the outrage of the LGBT community and you have a power play of back lash keeping us out of the Pac 12 and now the Big 12 and still no offers from other Power Conferences that got the message from the LGBT community.

Right now, Trump and Russia are being investigated for Russia’s alleged interference with the Presidential election… This is just one more example where citizens do not appreciate outside interference for any reason, be it a good reason or a bad reason. Outside interference is not appreciated.

Nw pontificate all you wish. Ignorance is bliss.

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Aro, you pik and chose your principals while totally ignoring the gospel of “Judge not, lest ye be judged and leave all judging to God”. or like," as ye sew, so shall ye reep" We are not reeping that which we sewed, Yo now tell us how much better you are than we are that want the best for our Cougars and try not to have anymore roadblocks for them.

I am not telling anybody I am better than them. When you try to uphold the sanctity of marriage as ordained by God for about 6 thousand years then the wicked, who would redefine it through the courts, will oppose you with all the venom in their souls. Putting political pressure on athletic conferences to keep a church sponsored institution, whose church opposes same sex marriage, out of those conferences is an example of what I am talking about.

If the church has to abandon its principles so BYU can have big time athletic programs then the church would be better off if they dropped big time athletics from their sponsored institutions.

I am sorry if you are taking what I say personally but I believe I am correct. I love BYU sports but BYU sports is not worth caving to political pressure and dancing to the beat of the world at large.

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Ron: “Judge not, lest ye be judged and leave all judging to God”. or like," as ye sew, so shall ye reep"

Roy: So Ron, you are completely free of judging? 100% free of judging. By your very posts, I know that you judge. I wonder how many times the prophets of the Old Testament were scorned with those statements. How many times the prophets of the Book of Mormon were charged with those statements. How many times was Jesus and the Apostles of the New Testament were assaulted by those statements. How many times Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other leaders of the latter day Church and missionaries were confronted by those statements. Dozens, scores, hundreds, thousands? Your rhetoric is pure bull crap, designed to knock people off their beliefs and principles so that your point prevails. IF (I said if) the LDS Church is true, if the prophet and First Presidency and Apostles are prophets, seers and revelators and IF the Lord is at the head of the LDS Church and directs the Church and you have a strong foundational belief in the same, then how dare you blame the Lord for screwing up BYU getting into the PAC 12 or ANY other FB conference. Who the hell are you to denounce the Lord and his prophets. On the other hand, if you do NOT have a foundational belief that the Lord himself leads and directs the LDS Church then continue to spout your vitriol, it matters not. To hell with all the football conferences in the entire country if the Church and BYU has to go against the Lord’s direction. Do you suppose Ron that this is the first time that the Lord’s Church has faced anger, push back, scorn and manipulation by those that oppose the Lord and his principles? No! and it won’t be the last time either. As for me, I stand with Aro in this regard.

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Your reasoning never cease to amaze me.

Did you ever pass a “Logic” Class? Did you ever attend BYU? Did you graduate from High School?

First you say, “You rhetoric is pure bull crap” next you acuse me of blaming the Lord, for {You say it best) I quote:
" how dare you blame the Lord for screwing up BYU getting into the PAC 12 or ANY other FB conference."
You’re a hopeless case that I won’t waste anytime with trying to show you just how silly you are.

You’re communication skills, or lack there of, are disgustiong. If you can’t post respectably to me, that don’t post to me as all, until you learn how to disagree respectfully.

Thank you Reed for your respectful different point of view from mine.

Your point of view in more in tune with the main body of the Church population. Most in the Church would agree with your point of view. I understand your point of view.

I do march to a different drummer in the same orchestra. I think out of the box where your thinking is more safe and more acceptable. I do agree with that.

Let’s stay friends, and agree to respectfully disagree on this issue.


Thanks for the nice belly laugh. Have you ever actually read your posts? Do you ever think about what you say or write? You have diarrhea of the keyboard. You don’t judge, you don’t bully, do you (oh no I said with a snicker and an eye roll). I never wanted, EVER, to reply to you, NEVER AGAIN, but reading your post - with the same bullying crappola over and over and over and over again, I found myself pissed off enough that I allowed my emotion to take over. I will compare my communication skills to yours any time, any place and beat you hands down. I have said my piece and feel content. Now go on and post more bullying and intimidating drivel.

Dear Roy,

I totally agree with you that I too, judge others, which I consider to be a big sin. Unlike you, I am far from perfect.
Unlike you, I try hard to improve in those areas that I deemed to be my imperfections, which are many.

I feel guilty judging you the way I do, but you tend to bring out the worse in me. It is very rare to find a person as perfect in every way that you seem to think that you are.



Answer me this question: Why did the church not do the same thing (“uphold the sanctity of marriage”) as they did in California, with several other states that had the same thing going on as California Prop 8?

The Church realized what they did in California was not the right way to do it. It caused way more negative press for the church.

Here is another thing that really bugs me… People assume things not entered as factual information.

Yes, the LBGT community submitted a letter to the Big 12 conference that they would boycott if BYU was admitted into the conference. Do you have ANY documented proof that actually influenced their decision? Because the easy was for them to show that influence was to invite other schools… Which they did not do!

What influenced their decision was that several schools did not want to give up their slice of the pie… MONEY, was the cause of BYU not being invited (as reported by ESPN and other media Outlets).

No one is asking the church to abandon their principles, but some times there are members of the church who should rethink how they interact with people not of our faith…

May I add for Clarity the true meaning of Mathew 7:1-2 means according to JST?

Bible Version:
"1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

JST Version
"1. Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people.

  1. Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment."

I think Joseph Smith cleared up the confusion about judging others…

I agree, but a more accurate statement is that the Lord cleared up the confusion through JS!

The church defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman! Maybe they are no longer making political stands on it but show me where they changed the definition. Ron raised the issue implying the church’s stance on same sex marriage has kept BYU out of a major conference. I just replied to him. There is no question LGBT activists put pressure on the BIg 12 to keep BYU out. That may not be the reason BYU is out but nevertheless they did it and the LGBT activists are about politics and getting everybody else to bend to their agenda and not about tolerance. They have no tolerance for those who disagree with them.

To me Ron’s remarks suggest the church should change their attitude so BYU can get into a major conference. I don’t agree. Getting into a major conference isn’t that important in the grand scheme of things.

You said the following:
“No one is asking the church to abandon their principles, but some times there are members of the church who should rethink how they interact with people not of our faith…”

If this is directed to me then I would only say that I am interacting with other church members here and see no reason to water down my remarks. I don’t discuss LGBT issues with people outside the church for a number of reasons and I don’t discuss them online in other forums. Homosexual sex is sin, adultery is sin, fornication is sin, masterbation is sin, bestiality is sin, pedophilia is sin, and indulging oneself in pornography is sin, all of them are sins of varying degrees. Sex between a married man and woman is acceptable to God. These things aren’t that complicated. BYU has an honor code that prohibits all these things and students who go there agree to abide by it. If we can’t shoot straight about these things with other church members then I guess they just can’t be discussed anywhere.


I was specifically talking about “people of Other faiths”, not other members of the church, and NO I was not pointing to you specifically, I am talking as a whole, not individually.

As for my comment go read the last 3 years of conference talks… the Authorities in our church has said “we need to change the way we interact with members of other faiths”

So you do not think you need to change, I would suggest taking to the LORD because he is the source of all truth.

I can interact with others people without being offensive or demeaning to other people beliefs, while maintaining the principles that I believe is true. I can also do the same thing with members of the church. Although I agree with you about what is a sin, I firmly believe that I need to careful in how I deal with the “sinner”.

Many members of this church is becoming the pharisee’s during the time of Christ… Believing that because they belong to the “right” group that we are some how superior to others.

I would add to your list of sin the following: “Anything that you do that creates an addictive behavior is a sin” This includes such things as overeating, getting addicted to cola’s, etc. I have even heard a member of the 12 say that if your church calling is taking away from your family time is a sin…

Take what I say with a grain of salt, for it is my opinion…

[quote=“Floyd_Edwards, post:18, topic:7559”]
“So you do not think you need to change, I would suggest taking to the LORD because he is the source of all truth.”[/quote]

If I didn’t think I needed to change I would be saying I have no need for repentance. Of course I need to change. I think we can speak plainly to each other about certain things and I don’t think we need to dance around the issue that homosexual behavior is a sin. Of course I have my sins as everybody does. Ron has made some remarks that he thinks the church needs to soften its stance concerning same sex marriage, not in this particular discussion but in some others. Maybe I am misunderstanding him but I am taking it to mean he thinks the church’s position on this issue is detrimental to the big conference football aspirations of BYU.

He said we keep burning our bridges by getting involved in politics and we reap what we sow. This coupled with other comments he has made leads me to believe he thinks it is the church’s/Byu’s fault that we aren’t in a major athletic conference because of our position on same sex marriage. My position is that if the church has to change its stance on certain things to get in an athletic conference then it is not worth the compromise to get into an athletic conference. I don’t see where this is in conflict with the brethren’s admonition to interact better with members of other faiths.

I don’t know if you are implying that I interact poorly with members of other faiths. I would hope I do ok there. I shared an apartment in Dallas with a lay Baptist minister for two years while I was forced to work away from home during the week. There are no other church members in my office and I have worked with very few in the last 35 years. I hope I haven’t been offensive. Nearly all of my co-workers know what my religion is. I don’t parade it around the office but I don’t hide it either. I guess my peers would have to judge me on that one.


Thank you for your reply. I enjoyed it. When openness prevails, I find that we are not so far apart in our thinking.

“Many members of this church is becoming the pharisee’s during the time of Christ… Believing that because they belong to the “right” group that we are some how superior to others.”

I could not agree more if I said it myself. Sometimes I feel that some of our members are much like the Pharisee’s during the time of Christ and that upsets me when some of our own act that way completely void of humility.

I would add to your list of sin the following:

“Anything that you do that creates an addictive behavior is a sin”

Yes again, I totally agree with you and I would include using religion to get a high, when thinking you are superior to others that do not wear religion on their shirt sleeve. (When I say you, I am not referiong to my friend Aro, but I use it as a gereral population term that wears the appropriate size shoe)

“I have even heard a member of the 12 say that if your church calling is taking away from your family time is a sin…”

Wow I so much relate to that. In the early 1960’s, I was working in a supermarket 60 hours per week to put myself and my wife through college with no student loans to be a teacher. At the same time, I was taking 15 semester units at at time, trying to finish school. At the same time, I was in the Elders Quarum Presidency, (Second Counselor)while being a Sunday School Teacher, while being a Stake Activities Director, whuile being a Webelo Leader, while being a home teacher. When, at that time, we had (home night) every Monday night, I grew to resent the fact that we had Church lessons to go over during family night. I needed that time to enjoy my four children and wife. I sooooooo totally relate to this comment.
I totally burned out. Yes Aro, anything in excess is a sin.

A second note, in 1955, I was at a Religious Retreat in Berchasgarten, Bavaria where Adam S. Benion told us that if he was stranded in the desert and thirsty, he would have a coke. While today, that seems perfectly normal and good advice as we would do far more harm to our body if we hydrated it do to lack of fluid, than any cafein could do to our body, at that time, before the and before the Church once owned a major share of the Coke Cola Company, it was than a sin to drink cafeine in any form, be it soda, coffee or tea. Time changes. There are doctors that now tell us the if you are old,you should dring as much coffee as possible to keep your mind alert, but back off if it causes you to get shaky or other wise have a negative affect of drinking too much coffee.

" I firmly believe that I need to careful in how I deal with the “sinner”.
Aren’t we all sinners? Don’t we need to be careful when talking to all people so that we do not come across as knowing all the answers and those that do not agree with us are the sinners and not we ourselves.
This may be the only place that we do not agree. I think that arrogance is a sin. I think that a lack of humility is a sin.