Lack of institutional control is what Rose and his program got tagged with. Frankly Hopper, not knowing about the multiple incidents over a 2 year period of time is the definition of lack of supervision … proving that you didn’t know about it is the oldest excuse in the book! That isn’t going to get Rose off the hook. The fact that he wasn’t paying attention and neither were his 5 other coaches … and no employees of the athletic dept is EXACTLY why they got hit with the vacating of games!! If Rose or the staff would have caught some of the issues themselves and then reported them … as they are expected to do they wouldn’t have been hit with lack of institutional control.
The wife and her family had to get all over the BYU staff and athletic dept and it appears that their report may have gotten to the NCAA first … You should already know this stuff Hopper!
All you have provided is speculations and a lot of hyperbole what ifs. If Rose says he had no knowledge of it then he didn’t. Whether others did is speculation and that would be true for the coaches and other players too. Why didn’t the wife and family go to Rose? Well?
Hopper, you are being a “Johnny come lately” on this. The wife did go to Rose and the athletic dept. Her concerns weren’t taken as seriously as they should have been and so her family got involved. Rose and Holmoe quickly figured out that there may be some serious issues going undetected and started following the leads given to them by Nicks wife and family.
You are missing the entire point of the NCAA report. They don’t care if Rose didn’t know about it. His lack of knowledge is something they believe … and I think I do too. However the fact that he didn’t know about any of the issues and therefore didn’t report them … in and of itself is the reason that Rose has the vacated wins being tagged on him as a coach and the program/school in general.
Maybe you should go read the report so you can become knowledgeable about what you are saying before your comments show …
Read your second paragraph. He didn’t know so why should he vacate his wins?
And since everyone doesn’t think Emery is any good then what about the other players? Why do they have to lose those games?
Because he should have known. We all agree that he didn’t know about the booster violations. What we (and the NCAA) are saying is that he should have. The booster had access to the locker room for crying out loud! And if you say, “Well, Rose didn’t know he had access,” that underscores the lack of institutional control. The whole point is that you as head coach need to know things like this, and ignorance is bad. Not good because you can claim innocence.
It isn’t fair to those players, but life isn’t fair, and sometimes there are scorched earth punishments meted out. While I agree that other programs should be hit harder, then, I also acknowledge that BYU is a city on a hill. We are held to a higher standard, which isn’t fair, but I welcome the higher standard.
Look, Rose has been a real laissez faire coach in his basketball coaching, too, not just his institutional control. My pet peeve about Rose is that he doesn’t adjust, doesn’t believe in defense, doesn’t react to momentum swings, doesn’t play his bench or develop players, and favors players over others because of pure politics, not merit. In short, he isn’t a very good actual coach, from what I have seen. And then you have the Emery scandal on top of all of this.
Just wins most games he should win, loses 2-3 every year that he should not (conference bottom feeders, every year), and almost never wins a big game. Very, very rare. He’s not a loser of a coach, but he’s been mediocre. Zero WCC championships. I could handle the mediocrity if he coached, but he doesn’t. His hallmark has been long scoring droughts and big opponent runs. No defense, and no team discipline. Favoritism and cronyism, and an exodus of good talent to other programs when they don’t play.
Take away Jimmer and Jackson Emery’s year, and what has he done, actually? I think Steve Cleveland and Roger Reid were much better actual coaches than Rose.
I have personally walked into the player’s lockers unfettered along with Coach Hecker. We could have done anything we wanted, nobody around, no questions asked.
If what THawk says is true, that it was Emery’s wife that talked to Rose and Holmoe, then I owe her an apology. I had talked to several reliable people and they all backed what I wrote. Apparently we have a lot of Lone Peak supporters. And the more I look at the Emery situation, the more it stinks. Why not just bounce him and teach all athletes that this stuff is an automatic expulsion.
I’m really not sure why anyone wants to give Rose a free pass on this one. As the coach he is the face of BYU basketball just like Pitino or any other prominent head coach. I could actually give Emery more of a pass for being an irresponsible, narcissistic kid, then a coaching staff, whose job it is to police what their athletes are doing. Just doesn’t make sense. I can’t really figure the boosters either, because it wasn’t as if Emery was great-i would have rather had Chatman or FB3 on the team rather than "jack it up from anywhere " Nick
Your answer is because he should have? Why? Also, how many times in his coaching career has he had these kinds of problems? Never. So, I think he did what was necessary and Emery was able to hide his crimes for a while.
Because as head coach, you are responsible for the institutional integrity of your team. Corrupt boosters, Coach Hecker, and fish from this board shouldn’t be able to enter your locker room with impunity and none of your staff knows about it.
It isn’t a problem until it is. And when it is, it can be a really big problem, like with Nick Emery.
Are you saying Coach Rose doesn’t share any responsibility with this? Even as just the guy at the top that the buck stops with? Some things in life, the adult in charge gets blame for if things go wrong. Which is why you have to ensure that they don’t, to the best of your ability.
Are you saying that Coach Rose shouldn’t make any changes at all, based on the NCAA sanctions? That he should continue to allow unfettered access to his team because this was a freak thing and can’t happen again?
Actually, most of the infractions were done during the summer months with BYU was out of school, second the alleged booster, was also a friend of the Emery family. So there is a lot of “gray” in this issue.
So tell me how Rose is suppose to keep tabs on 12 players living all over the country?
you seem to be the “Johnny come lately”, Emery EX-WIFE went to Rose as a way to get back at Nick Emery. It was not that she was expressing concern, it was about being a vindictive B??? (sorry but that is exactly what brought this up).
Fish, you were with a coach, that pretty much explains why you could do what you did. This is not uncommon, in college, where big time boosters has access to players (part of paying the bills).
I do agree with you that something has to be done, there needs to be a little more accountability in the AD office. I do not blame Holmoe as some of you have done, I blame Sanitago, he is actually the Asst. AD over basketball.
I do have to laugh though, I think this is a wake up call to fans of BYU. Yes, it is a church school, but guess what? we have the same issues as other schools (maybe not as severe, but they are there) because we are dealing with young men and women who frankly, have been coddled their whole life because of the sports skill they have and have not had to be held accountable for their actions.
I do not demonized Nick, I think he got caught up in something because of family ties, being stupid and young and having deal with a wife who used this as a way to get back at him during the divorce proceedings.
From my sources, that divorce was as ugly as it gets, and Nick is lucky there are no children involved. But Nick paid the prices in more ways than anyone on this site will ever know, or should know. Let’s leave it at that.
Actually, Floyd, that isn’t what brought this up. I didn’t bring up WHY she went to the coaches and the athletic dept at all. I don’t care and I am sure that the vast majority of people don’t care WHY she went to the basketball team and the athletic dept ONLY that she did. The Emery camp likes to depict her as crazy and out of control and I really don’t care or want to get into the WHY she did what she did. I don’t care. The fact of the matter is that Nick, not the girl, was on scholarship and he needed to obey NCAA rules. She didn’t! Nick’s actions got the school a black eye, not his wife’s actions. Quit apologizing for him by blaming her. He shouldn’t have been doing what he was doing and even if he married the worst wife in the world, it doesn’t matter.