Positives And Negatives Regarding This Team

Positive - Childs is improving every game and starting to look like the player we were told he was. Gaining confidence and improving court awareness as he grows as a force on the inside with a nice little 10 - 15’ shot. Nice to see. Haws is also improving although he can still play out of control at times. Making shots when needed, but defense still a struggle as staying in front of guys is hard for him. He will need to add a bit more strength to improve on D as he is too easy to push around as thin as he is. Mika is doing fine but also shows up in the negative column.

Negative - Bryant is not making any real improvements and Emery appears to be going backwards. I realize he has been hurt and sick but still, his overall play is dramatically worse than last year. He cheats way too much on defense, allowing his man to get buy, thus forcing bad rotations on everyone else. It appears to me that rather than working for a good shot he has moments were he just feels like it’s his turn to shoot and will throw up anything to accomplish that and he doesn’t set himself up well for his shots. His lack of production seems to frustrate him and hence he appears to be on the verge of loosing his cool on any given play. I don’t think that is conducive to good basketball and leaves him looking like an extreme hot head (which he may be and if so needs to overcome that). And is there anyone who commits more really dumb fouls than Mika? He is very talented but spends too much time on the bench because he doesn’t keep his head in the game as he commits bad meaningless fouls on rebounds, on setting screens, on fouls away from the ball, etc. Both he and Emery need to learn the importance of staying within themselves and understanding when to go after the ball and when it makes no sense to do so. And as a big negative, the assist ratio for the team has to be mentioned. For the most part, it’s horrible and the reason is that ball movement isn’t very good and virtually no one has the ability to beat their man one on one and screens are not well set (if set at all) and hence both inside and outside players end up mostly just trying to create their own shot of the dribble. Not the greatest formula for success, although Mike and Childs are pretty good at it inside. How much better could all this be if this team could really penetrate or rotate the ball and get good open looks?

The bench is not responding real well and for the most part, none of them appear to be able to bring anything special to the game when they come in. When Rose and Davis were still playing, Childs and Bryant could possibly do so but that is gone so for the most part nothing much comes off the bench. It’s disappointing to see so little come from these guys but it is what it is and it hurts BYU when a starter goes out.

I don’t see more improvement this year and so believe we will continue to win some, lose some depending on who we play and how well the other team shoots from outside. If well, we lose. If poorly, we have a chance. It’s not so much dictated by us but rather by them as our defense is not good enough to keep teams from getting good shots. I believe we will struggle through the final games, certainly lose to the better teams and possibly win one game in the conference tournament. If we go NIT, no home games and hence I believe it will be one and done and a hope for a better all around team next year.

I think we have a number of dynamics going on with BYU basketball. Rose was depending on Davis and Rose to fill out his rotation of 7. Now he has had to resort to Guinn to shore up the lack of defense as well as Dastrup.

Our bench is concerning. Beo does not even look to score…as you say Bryant is not progressing and I think Emery is just in a big funk.

BYU should win 2 of the last 4 and make it 2 wins into the tourney and get some wins in the NIT as long as they play at home. Reload for next year.

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Why doesn’t Mika get more assists? If he gets 2 or more, we win. But why doesn’t he get more than that? For a guy that gets double-teamed as much as he does, it seems like he should get a lot more assists. If he could improve his passing it would help the whole team.

Dastrup got some blocks in this last game! If he could start hitting some of his shots he could provide a big boost coming off the bench. He needs to play more.

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You pose a serious question. Mika is a NBA talent but in Rose’s system, our players do not move off ball so few assists. In the NBA they is all kinds of movement off ball and Mika would have to pass and get tons of assists. Rose seriously needs to revamp the offense.

Dastrup will see more and more time as his game is very high upside.

I agree with Fish that Rose’s plan for the season fell apart almost before it got started. Bryant was being groomed to start at point when the season began. That planned changed when Bryant needed knee surgery. Rose came in to run the point and did a pretty good job. Bryant had a couple of promising games but then tweaked his other knee. I don’t know how bad his other knee is right now but the injuries have hampered his progress. During his year sitting out as per NCAA transfer rules, I suspect he found he could drive to the hoop almost at will in practice partly because our guys didn’t have a defensive mindset and because our guys have trouble staying in front of their man. He found pretty quickly that opponents in this league play better defense than we do so he’s had adjust his game. He’s figuring things out at this level of competition and I still don’t know that he is playing at 100%. The other things that blew Rose’s strategy were the injuries to Davis and most recently to Rose.

Beyond the issue of injuries, there are plenty of fans that are beginning to question Rose’s coaching. First, there is the poor defensive performances. Many have cited his over-use of the 1-3-1 defense. Guinn seems to be the best at the top position on the 1-3-1 but this defense is inherently vulnerable to the corner 3pt shot. Once a team figures that out like St Marys did, they can kill that defense as long as they have players that can hit the corner 3 pt shot. The other criticisms I’ve heard is that Rose likes to play an uptempo style of basketball with guys that can really shoot the ball and that can run the floor and get a lot of transition baskets. Some argue that his philosophy works at BYU because we can’t recruit the kind of speed other teams can.

I don’t buy the argument that BYU can’t recruit speed. But, I am not impressed with the play of Leifson and wonder why Rose recruited him. He made a lot of shots during summer practice but, again, I doubt anyone in practice was playing much defense. So far, Leifson seems too slow to get a shot off or too rattled to shoot in a real game and he’s a defensive liability. Jim has mentioned many times that this staff needs to do a better job of finding talent and recruiting. We get some very talented players like Frank Bartley. He could have really helped us this year. I don’t know why he left but those are the players that can help us against a team like Pepperdine. Anyway, now I’m rambling. Sorry this is so long.

the fact that this club is full of friends that will workout all summer long together gives me some hope that we will see a better chemistry coming back this fall. The key is Dastrup, if he stays and works back to top form.

But if we want to see real change, there has to be speed and defensive drills and the addition of a lock down defensive guy or two

Don’t forget the strength training.

Bryant makes mistake at the point with turnovers. But not many more than most point guards that handle the ball significant minutes. Aside from that he’s playing well with 2 bad knees. If he can stay healthy he will end up being really good in a couple of years.

Agreed about the lack of movement (screens and cutting) with the offense. Mika almost never has a clear pass to anyone.
As far as guards who can drive, Emery is the only one with quickness. Bryant and Haws have long first and second strides but not quick. My opinion is that Emery should be running the point without Rose. With Haws and Bryant cutting with the long strides we would have more layups and free throws. Also more consistant scoring too including more points from Emery.
Rose should have the team watch video of other good defensive teams like GU, UCLA and others to show them how to rotate and stay in front of players.

Ya think? gee, I wonder why… maybe it’s because they never got any playing time early in the season or maybe it’s because they know that no matter what they do, they aren’t going to play many minutes anyway. Dastrup was a big time recruit who dumped Ohio St. to come to BYU. What opportunity has he been given? Nielsen knew what was coming so he left. Bartley knew as well, so he left. Beo doesn’t shoot because he has been crammed into a role that doesn’t permit him to shoot if he wants to play at all. How or why does a guy who averaged 27 a game in high level high school basketball in Washington never shoot the ball?

The basketball culture at BYU is terrible. There isn’t much opportunity to prove yourself and get playing time, even if you work hard. Dastrup got a few minutes vs. Pepperdine because, according to Rose, he “earned” it by practicing hard. Gimme a break… that is a joke and the fill in players know it. Hollow promises, insincere gobbleygook and a culture that results in double digit losses to Pepperdine followed up by double digits wins vs. USF. Inconsistent, erratic, unpredictable and a team that isn’t really improving overall… those are the results of the seeds that were planted early in the season.

and even if he did, he’s not likely to make it because he is a shoot first, force it if you have to, player. That is why he never has any assists. It’s why he isn’t showing any progress as well.

You say Emery is progressing and that is about as far from reality as anything. How many times does he use his quickness to gamble on steals and leave the defense hanging? Sorry, no improvement… and you want him to run the point? LOL!

After a win like USF, everyone forgets the horrible loss to Pepperdine. Fans state that the team in “getting better” and use Yoeli’s game as proof. I watched the game and the reason BYU won is because Yoeli didn’t get called for stupid fouls and USF simply bricked wide open shots. It wasn’t great defense or improved team play or maturity… it was USF shooting the worst they possibly could.

There are a lot more than two hundred NCAA division 1 teams who would like their bball culture to be as terrible as BYU’s…

Myopia seems to be epidemic on this board this season…

There is nothing left to play for except team development. It is good for the team that LJ got hurt, but bad for him. The offensive chemistry is mostly poor. Some players will not pass the ball to other players who have a better shot. It is a me first offense and the potential to wear ones self out on defense and negatively impact the chance for points on the other end of the court is just not worth it. Only some players have the green light to shoot and miss and not get pulled out. Rose made this bed and I hope he enjoys sleeping in it. Things won’t change because Rose allows the same things to go in in each game and they win 2 out of 3 games. The fact of the matter is that this team is just not that good. They will never be a sweet 16 team because enough of the stars aren’t winners or team players . They are mostly high school stars who think that they are still stars and they aren’t.

Well, he told you the same thing then. These subs aren’t practicing hard. Most are freshman and have to get acclimated to college life and not having their homework and tests done for them :wink:
Also, you obviously still don’t understand the leap from high school to college and college to the pros. Beo was all world in Washington but just average in college. He will now have to see if his skill ability can improve. If it doesn’t he may want to play his Jr. or Sr. years where he will get playing time with lesser skilled players.
Bartley and others weren’t really getting better either and made that choice. As far as playing people more at the beginning of the season, games at the beginning are just as important now as at the end when it comes to making the NCAA Tournament. Coaches have to play players who they believe will win games and are working the hardest to be on the floor.

Wouldn’t that be nice.

That’s what is happening :upside_down_face:

I was listening to Dave Rose talk about successful basketball programs. It was useful to hear his opinion because it gave a little insight into his approach to coaching. He highlighted Mark Few at Gonzaga and the womens basketball coach at UConn and the Kansas program as model programs for success. They basically decide on their scheme and then recruit players to fit the scheme. Rose complimented Few’s recruiting because of the depth he has. Last week, the starting PG was injured. The next guy up scored 28pts and played very well. Rose then said if he could have done things differently, he would have ensured there were more upper classmen on the team to provide the maturity and consistency that is lacking on this team. Poor consistency is a sign of a young team. It didn’t help that the only two seniors on the team went out with injuries. But, as Rose hinted, he didn’t do a great job of setting this team up for success. From a fan perspective, it is a bit frustrating because Rose has been here 10 years and has had ample time to adjust to the nuances of the BYU environment and should have been on top of these issues by year 3. Like with St Marys and GU, BYU has its system in place and should be able to recruit players that fit Rose’s system and have the depth and balance of upper and lower classmen to be consistent every year. I do like what Rose has done at BYU. I know it is difficult to compete for recruits and have a program that is consistently excellent. Some coaches are very gifted in implementing their system and recruiting into it but there are not a lot of Mark Few-type coaches out there let alone LDS Few-type coaches. I suppose there will always be those who think BYU can get someone better to run the program but I’m thinking the best thing is to be patient and let Rose figure it out for next year.

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I agree with your analysis. It would be interesting on why he would tell kids like Neilsen or Bartly that they don’t have a chance to compete because of incoming players. Or, is this just rumor mongering.

I was really sad to see Bartley go. BYU doesn’t get many guys with his level of athleticism. I don’ t know if it is just a rumor or not that he got booted. These are the sorts of issues that you just have to trust that a coach knows what he’s doing. In my opinion, Chatman, Bartley and Neilsen could all have helped this team this year. Neilsen is much more skilled that Kaufusi who has lost a lot of his athleticism since putting on 40-50 lbs. Bartley had the quickness to play lock-down defense. I would have liked the matchup between Bartley and Murry of Pepperdine. Same with Chatman. If these guys are leaving because of a lack of playing time then Rose needs to work these guys into his rotation so they don’t feel like they’re languishing on the bench. Managing your players and their minutes and keeping everyone engaged is an important part of the coaching job. You have to keep up the morale of your players.

There are only so many playing minutes per game. When you take away from one to give to another don’t you run the risk of them leaving because their playing time is cut?

As for Chatman he said he wanted to go to law school but is in a MBA program at BC. Yes his stats are very good but his team is loosing. Sounds to me like not much of team player.

That to me is the problem to many “me” people and not enough “team” people.