Romney is a Democrat

You didn’t answer mine concerning Romney’s conscience excuse. Either Trump was guilty or he wasn’t. There’s no in between when you imply revelation from heaven on this point. Romney is a wolf in sheepskin.

I believe Romney based his decision on what he felt was the results of his due diligence .
I have no info other what he said to discount it.

As for the rest of the GOP senators, I would say that most of them did not do due diligence at all.

WHY? because veven before the trial they said they would aquit or flat out dismiss.

Does that sound like someone foung due dilligence? Don’t think so.

They decided to follow the deomcrats lead and blindly follow thier own party leadership with thier verdict of not guilty.

Sorry that is how I feel.

You really need to understand the concept of personal revelation.

Why does the same words in a verse of scripture mean two totally different things to two different people?

The answer, personal revelation.

If we were seeking the very same answer for the same thing, and the answer is either yes or no, God isn’t going to give you a different answer, me yes and you no. This wasn’t a matter of personal revelation. This was a matter of voting a man innocent or guilty and calling it revelation when it wasn’t. Romney tried to teach people about the Light of Christ at the expense of an innocent man because of his hatred for Trump. It’s you that seems to not understand the difference between personal revelation and ones conscience. Not the same thing either.

LOL!!! Did you watch any of the House hearings? Everything was already known before the House voted to impeach. The Senators has transcripts and personal witness of the House hearings. There was nothing more to know and during the Senate hearing nothing new was given by the Democrats in the House. That’s why the Senators already knew why they were voting for to acquit before they began. To the people without hatred in their hearts we knew the Democrats in the House were full of lies. The hatred you have for Trump clouds your conscience as it did with Romney.

let me put it to you in simple terms, since the concept of personal revelation is new to you.

Since you were in a bishopric, here goes:
You as a Bishopric prays for guidance to fill a calling. You prayerfully choose a person to call. When you call that person in to extend the calling, you ask them to pray about it. they go home and prayerfully consider the calling. they return to your office and decline the calling because their personal revelation was that taking the calling at this time was not good to do.

Who’s right Scott? Two different people pray for an answer to the same thing, and yet, got two different results?

I know this has happened to me as well as others. The bishop wanted me to be a scout master, I prayed about it and was told not to accept the calling. The bishop was a bit upset, because he believed no one should turn down callings. Being who I am, I really did not care what the bishop thought. Three months later I had to move to another location to help take care of a family member.

Please do not try to tell me I was wrong, I know for a fact the Lord knew what was coming, and wanted me free to make changes in my life. As a added bonus, my wife (who never turns down callings) said she had the same witness.

Second, Your comment about Romney bringing in “revelation” is not accurate. Romney never said he got revelation about his answer:
His exact quote as stated on the Senate Floor:
“I have gone through a process of very thorough analysis and searching, and I have prayed through this process, But I don’t pretend that God told me what to do.”

According to Romney’s interpretation of Alexander Hamilton’s treatise on impeachment in “Federalist No. 65”—which he says he’s read “multiple, multiple times”—Trump’s attempts to enlist the Ukrainian president in interfering with the 2020 election clearly rose to the level of “high crimes and misdemeanors.”

You are wrong because your premise is wrong. In a ward, you have many people to consider for that one calling. If all 3 of us got a different person then we keep going until we came to the same person. And, we relied on the Holy Ghost for revelation.
With Trump, there was no other 300 people to choose who was guilty. It was either Trump was guilty or he wasn’t. And, the Holy Ghost won’t give Mike Lee a different answer than Mitt Romney. Assuming God is going to intervene at all. And, I don’t think he did. I think he left it up to each Senator. This wasn’t about a calling in the Church.
So, the question is, did Mitt Romney actually rely on the light of Christ? Did Lee and the other Senators rely on the light of Christ. If not, what did they rely on? Or, whose light was dimmed? Whose conscience was darkened?
My answer is Romney is the only one whose hatred sides with the 47 Senators who openly have hatred towards Trump.
Look at the trial in the House. Only 1 witness said Trump ties the money to the request to investigate Biden. And he backed off that a bit as well. All the others said there was no quid pro quo and more importantly no extortion. Even the President of the Ukraine said no extortion or quid pro quo. There were no victims. There was no Treason. No crime. Just hatred towards Trump. And, I seriously doubt Democrats care that Trump was a dirty old adulterous at one time. None of that is a high crime or misdemeanor while he has been President, unlike Clinton, Johnson, Kennedy (all 3 of them), FDR and many others. And many of the current Democrats in Congress. No, the only crime Trump committed was depriving Hillary to continue Obama’s march to Marxism and a state of totalitarianism. See, that’s what the Democrats are screaming loudest that Trump is doing this and we know he isn’t. Lee was correct and righteously used his conscience or the light of Christ. Romney, you could see him fight the light of Christ and force out the dark answer. He was reacting to his loss of faith. While Lee’s conscience was clear and without hatred.

Scott, my comment was “You as a Bishopric prays for guidance to fill a calling. You prayerfully choose a person to call.” Which is exactly what you said… I just shortened the process for “choosing the person” to call…

Yes, the spirit can and does give different answers to different people. Answers to prayers are based on “what is being asked”, “what is the knowledge base of the person asking”.

As I illustrated with a calling. The Bishopric determine through the HG that a person was to be called to a position, but the person who was extended the call received a different answer to prayer to not accept the call. Two different answers to pray for a the very same calling.

I also showed the comment that Romney used which states [quote=“Floyd_Edwards, post:26, topic:8610”]But I don’t pretend that God told me what to do .[/quote]

Which means you were incorrect that Romney brought in revelation into his decision.

Romney never said he used revelation to come to his conclusion. He said he based his decision after much study, His interpretation of Alexander Hamilton’s treatise on impeachment in “Federalist No. 65” and prayer. He came up with a different answer than Lee and the other Senators.

This doesn’t mean though that God provided contradicting answers to Lee and Romney, The Lord answered Romney’s prayer according to what he (Romney) was asking for guidance about, and the answer was based on what Romney’s knowledge about the Senate process and his (Romney) interpretation of Alexander Hamilton’s treatise on impeachment in “Federalist No. 65” was.

Lee may or may not have prayed about the issue. Lee is definitely has a different knowledge base than Romney about the Federalist papers interpretation of what Hamilton wrote.

I am really amazed at how little you understand that different people can receive different answers about the same subject.

I have gone down this rabbit hole for too long (which Thawk warned me about not doing with you), and this is my last post on the subject. If you don’t like my opinion Scott that is fine. I do not care.

I understand Romney decision process, I have never said that he was right or wrong in his decision, I said Romney has a right to his opinion and stance just like Lee has his right to do the same.

This doesn’t mean though that God provided contradicting revelations to Lee and Romney.

Sure, Romney is welcome to his opinion. It is just curious that the same man who so obviously hates Trump is the ONLY Repub senator who voted with the Dem senators to convict Trump. The fact that Romney has a hard on for Trump and he KNEW the Dem impeachment was a sham and a hoax makes me believe that Romney is a hoax and a sham as a Republican. Not to mention all the other squirrely things Romney has done. Romney is not fit to hold any public office.

Floyd: “Being who I am, I really did not care what the bishop thought.” If your being is to not care then it truly best for you, the ward and those you might serve - to not serve. I know that I do not want to deal with anyone at church who is in any kind of leadership position who does not care. I have had councilors with that condition and I detested it.

Hate is a strong word, If Romney hated Trump, then why does he vote about 80 percent of the time for Trump stuff? If he hates Trump, why does he often go on air to support Trump against some of the stuff that the democrats do? If he hates Trump, why was he there in support of Trump when Nancy Pelsoi ripped up the SOTU speech?

My honest opinion is that Romney is main stream Republican, not “Far Right” like a majority of the leadership in the Utah GOP party are and that drives those nutso people crazy.

If the Utah GOP does something in his next election, where he can not run as GOP, I would venture to guess that Romney would still win the election running as an independent. Why? because the majority of Utahan’s dislike the GOP as much as they dislike the democrat party.

Floyd: “The Lord answered Romney’s prayer according to what he (Romney) was asking for guidance about,”

The question for the Senators was Yes or no on two articles of impeachment. You just stated a point of utilizing the Holy Ghost. Romney said he only was following his conscience. No Holy Ghost or God is needed. You assume the other 52 Republican Senators didn’t study the same things. The only thing we know is Romney hates in his heart Trump. And, we know all Democrats do too. Democrats started the impeachment talk and movement a second after Trump was sworn in.
And, watching Romney trying to be King Benjamin was painful to watch. I could feel his hatred towards Trump and saw a darkened countenance.

Arkie hit you pretty hard. My understanding of revelation is as you put it. Where we disagree is that this isn’t a matter of revelation. This was the conscience of Romney.

I seriously doubt your last statement. You are saying the majority of the people prefer the Democrat Party’s platform? Big Government, Abortion, LGBT and the rest? Really?

80% of the time? Why not 100%? We know he hates.

Arkie,
I think you misunderstand my “Not caring” statement.

In my previous comments, I talked about how a bishop was upset at me for not accepting call, AFTER I had prayed about it and got my answer which was not to accept the calling.

He did not like me turning down my calling and told me so. He thought I was not “fulfilling my duty” in the church, that I should accept all calling no matter what.

I believe and follow the prompting of the spirit, if he tells me not too accept the calling because he knows something I don’t, I follow that prompting, PERIOD!

When I do accept, I serve with my whole heart and soul. As an example, I was asked to serve in the inner city mission, fine, the spirit almost immediately told me to accept.

Then a member of the inner city mission presidency who happened to be my former Stake President called and asked me to serve in a Spanish ward (Which I do not speak Spanish, my wife does). I was a little hesitant to accept because of the language barrier, but I had a prompting to accept the call and the Lord would work out the details.

I accepted the assignment for two reasons:

  1. I knew my wife would love to work in the Spanish ward to help keep her Spanish up to date and she truly loves the Latino people (she served a Spanish mission). How could I say “No”?
  2. the Lord prompted me that things would work out for me. Which by the way they have, I love it being in the ward, the members are great and treat me as a friend. Several have helped me know what is going on when people are talking in Spanish during the lessons.

Personally, I have a hard time thinking about going back to my home ward. I really love the ward I am assigned too.

Hope that helps.

Well, 60 percent of the people in Utah happens to be okay with Romney decision.

Second, I said Romney would win as an independent, No, Most Utahan do not like the far left agenda. But they have been known to vote for Moderate Democrats like Jim Matheson (House), His father Scott Matheson (Governor), Bill Orton (House),etc…

Because unlike you Scott… people in Utah believes what the Prophet Of God has said “There is good in all political parties”.

Hola Floyd, como estas? Yo tengo aprendo espanol. Que hay de ti?

This still doesn’t have anything to do with our conscience decisions…

What in the Democrat’s platform would the Prophet think is a good one?

Good on ya Floyd. I would recommend that in future say something like I am firm in my decision and leave out “I don’t care.” There are too many serving in the Church who don’t really care.

We don’t really know how much Romney is supported until the next election. Most people, Republicans or democrats, do not care enough to do anything about it. I sincerely doubt that Romney would win as an independent, especially if Trump wins another term in office. If Trump wins, Romney would serve himself best by finding a remote cave to hide in. You give yourself away with the comment, “nutso people.” My watching state politics for the past 45 years suggest to me that the leadership of the Utah GOP is in tune with the majority of Utahns or they would not dominate state politics. BTW, I don’t care if you are independent, repub, dem or whatever. I am just commenting on your bias.

Romney has made it abundantly clear, in public discourse, that he loathes Trump. The clear proof is out there in the public domain. Another BTW: I was a staunch supporter of Romney until his senate impeachment trial vote disgrace.

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I am talking about personal experience dealing with the nutso people in my local caucus meetings. It was so bad, many devout GOP left the party over it.

Second, The GOP leadership of the Utah GOP is now where near being in tune with the majority of Utahns.

Currently, The GOP legislature has a 31% percent approval rating by Utah voters. That is not being in tune with the voters.

Add to that the whole SB54 bill where it allowed people running for office to get the required signatures to be put on the ballet. The GOP went to court and continues to fight it even though “The Majority of Utahan’s” support the bill.

The republicans are not well liked in Utah, the problem is that the democrats have not figured out that if they support moderate candidates instead of the far left candidate, they could actually win more elections.

You see, in my humble opinion, the voters don’t like the choices, so they go with the better option. That is one reason that the United Utah party was formed. To give the voters a third option.