Scouting princeton

Rose’s superior and fast offense creates the impression of bad defense.
Efficiency stats were created for such situations.
Last year the most efficient defence in the conference wore Cougar Blue not Bulldog
a team that regularly challenges for the top of the conference in defensive efficiency at a minimum belies the statement that Rose’s teams do not play defense.
No doubt his offense is better.
Just like Lavell’s teams. Precisely because the offense is so superior the defense looks bad in comparison. But a top t0 national winning percentage over the course of 10 years does not occur without better than average defenses.

It should be no surprise that some of BYU’s most successful seasons came when they had their best defensive performances. As mentioned above, the team peaked in the KenPom rankings with a fantastic run of Top 25 finishes from 2009 to 2011. During that span, the Cougars finished in (or on the cusp of) the Top 50 in Adjusted Defensive Efficiency in each season — 39th in 2009, 51st in 2010 and 38th in 2011.http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/6/15/11899410/byu-basketball-big-12-expansion-mailbag
Right about the time Coach Rice left for UNLV.
The past 3 years have been abysmal. Rock bottom…terrible. bad. ugly. stunk. pathetic…What more do I need to say, Harold.
http://www.compughterratings.com/CBB/teams/BYU
When you start somewhere south of 300 (two years ago) and end up somewhere better than 150 (last season) it is pretty sad

Rose brought in Pope for defense and big men.
Pope never had big men to work with and the defense didn’t recover until the defensive Lewis showed up…Rose hired him for defense, Or at least so he said several times.

I would say, the defensive problems and the big men problems were more connected than Rose’s defensive shortcomings at coach.
Of the three sources of lack of defense, Two have been solved and I think that will show the third solved as well. For me this means that the coach was not so much the issue…obviously except for the recruiting. . .which is a major advantage Few has, at least so far. . .

Harold, I am your biggest fan, trust me but I have no defense for Roses past few years when we were rated #1 on offense but dead last on D. I quit trying to figure it out but I think you are right when you say that Pope just had terrible bigs to work with.

But I think those days are behind us…just look at the minutes ManChilds got vs. Davis- 23 minutes each. A true freshman got as many minutes as the senior veteran. Granted Davis was in foul trouble but ManChild matched the senior’s production.

And…our guards were pretty good at keeping Princeton from getting to the hoop and will only improve on defense. I am certainly looking at games I had us losing but I will reserve judgement for after we play on the road.

They play great offense and now they apparently play great defense, or at least they are tops in the conference in defensive efficiency.

All these impressive stats and conference bests would lead one to believe that they win wcc championships with regularity…

Do you have any stats on how many west coast conference titles and/or tournaments they have won?

One whole title less than SMC: 0. A fact which you well know. Though you do say it a bit less than Coach Rose does.

I think St. Mary’s has won a few, not in the years since BYU has been in the wcc (I’m guessing that is where you got the one title) but they have won more than that in the past.

I guess we don’t need to concern ourselves with trying to win a title this year because Gonzaga is so good it won’t be possible. Since they have so many new players it doesn’t look like it will happen soon either. The LP boys were supposed to make a final four run… those are a lot of things that need to happen to make all these predictions come about.

We will see.

You keep discounting last year.
Saint Mary’s and Gonzaga tied for the regular season championship…the WCC counts it. Gonzaga counts it. SMC certainly counts it.

Far from great…but at least last year not putrid.
To say that they were in the upper half of the WCC conference on D, is not to say they were great. It does not say they were better than average. It does not say they were good.

I was simply trying to point out that while Rose is a Hall of Fame level offensive coach, like Lavell, his defense, like Lavell’s, is not as usually as bad as it’s reputation.
Rose’s teams, like Lavell’s would not win as much, if the defense was normally as bad as reputed.

The perfumatory effects of the offense do not hide the stench of the defence. They merely cause one to notice that the dish being served would be more olfactorily satisfactory if the odors wafting from the floor of the Mariott Center Court included the savor of defense instead of just the sweetness of the offense. :slight_smile: