Steve Young biography

I support it too. And it seems to me that many members aren’t. Seems like a lot are saying it’s not a sin but a medical condition. I don’t think the Church is saying that.

As the father of a gay son, raised in a typical Mormon family, served an honorable mission, came out of the closet after 3 years of a failed marriage, I am very familiar with the agony these young men go thru. I’m greatfull for the work Elder Oaks is doing to alleviate and help them. Now that Boyd K is out of the way ( who had a gay grandson) it should progress much easier. WYCOWBOY

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Christ is at the head of the Church. His commandments are what we follow. Not what is socially acceptable.
I have no problem helping those who want help. Those who love the Lord. Those that would give up their sins to love the Lord instead.
I knew a couple of teachers at BYU who were lesbians. They were Temple record holders as they did not act upon their desires. Just like some brothers and sisters I know who are heterosexuals that keep their covenants and were never married.

Grasshopper - I agree with everything you said. The sad part these young men were treated as outcasts too many times and not with a spirit of love. The Church’s "Evergreen " program was a total failure, where they told them the problem was all in their head and just get over it and go marry a nice LDS girl. Those marriages them failed and it was a tragedy to the young ladies caught up in this program. WYCOWBOY

Very true. It’s why the prophets started telling gays not to marry. However, there are gays and lesbians that are married and have stayed married and made it work. There’s been someone in this forum that admitted he’s gay and his wife is the only woman he has sexual feelings for.
So, this isn’t a one size fit for all debate. What we should realize is 3.5% of the population is controlling the rest of the 96.5%. While we should care and help them, we don’t need to change God’s commandments for 3.5%.

Again I agree with you. .Altho I think the number is closer to 10% . My son has had a partner for about 10 years and he knows I don’t concur with his immoral life style, but I also know how difficult it would be to live a celibate life. FYI I am 82 years old, six children, 12 grand and 21 great grand so far. Have held about every office in the Church including Bishop.

By gay polling agencies themselves they say 3.5%. And transgendered is so small that it’s nonsense.

The number is closer to 10% and if you are trying to find agreement with grasshopper on some level, don’t waste your time or effort. He sits firmly on the side that believes that being gay is a choice…end of subject.

We are parents to a gay son who chose to leave the church to get some peace and sanity in his life. We as parents attended his wedding, include him and his spouse in everything we do in life in the same way we treat our other married children.

“We show our love for God by keeping His commandments (see John 14:15) and by loving one another (see John 13:34). If you have a family member or friend who experiences same-sex attraction or identifies as gay, love them. President Henry B. Eyring observed:
“If you want to stay close to someone who has been dear to you, but from whom you are separated, you know how to do it. You would find a way to speak to them, you would listen to them, and you would discover ways to do things for each other. The more often that happened, the longer it went on, the deeper would be the bond of affection. If much time passed without the speaking, the listening, and the doing, the bond would weaken.” end of quite.

Steve Young chooses to not to judge, just love unconditionally. We as parents chose to do likewise and leave the judging up to God.

10% is way overstated.

UCLA Williams Institute is a gay advocacy institute, about as pro gay, as you can get and they care about getting the numbers right. They want to get the numbers right so that in front of a judge their numbers appear as unassailable as possible. Accuracy matters for them.
“the analyses suggest that there are more than 8 million adults in the US who are lesbian, gay, or bisexual, comprising 3.5% of the adult population”. - See more at: http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/how-many-people-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/#sthash.IjFVXlU8.dpuf

So you disagree with gay organization’s about the numbers? You must hate gays then too?

Thank you. I wonder if I’ll get an apology:-)

You see, Harold, you forgot to read the rest of the article…

“Among adults who identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual, bisexuals comprise a slight majority (1.8% compared to 1.7% who identify as lesbian or gay); women are substantially more likely than men to identify as bisexual; estimates of those who report any lifetime same-sex sexual behavior and any same-sex sexual attraction are substantially higher than estimates of those who identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual. There are also nearly 700,000 transgender individuals in the US. An estimated 19 million Americans (8.2%) report that they have engaged in same-sex sexual behavior and nearly 25.6 million Americans (11%) acknowledge at least some same-sex sexual attraction. - See more at: How Many People are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender? - Williams Institute

11% or 25.6 million Americans acknowledge at least some same-sex attraction…and when you turn the discussion away from what good loving people would do for their family members, who are gay, into a numbers game of “is it 3% or is it 10%”, then you give fuel to the fire of the bigots.

Then the Bigot can fire back, “You must hate gays”…to a father of a gay son. Just stop and think about that for a minute
. Its guys like Scott Gavenman who spread their hate in the name of religion that cause confused gay LDS kids to feel broken, worthless and to end their lives. Its guys like Scott Gavenmen who make the rest of us really question whether or not we want to be a part of this church.

Your last sentence says it all. I question your testimony. I’m not here because of 3.5% of the population is gay and another 7% have entertained the thought of Committing the sin. I’m here because the Gospel is true here along with all of the commandments.

What the rest of the study suggests isn’t there are 11% homosexuals. There are 3.5% that are and another 7% that want to try the sin. It doesn’t mean the are gay.

Now, to the point. You cannot show anywhere that I wrote where we should not help gays and support their efforts to remain faithful. So, get off your high horse and stop looking for reasons to apostacize.

Thinking or contemplating about something doesn’t make it so. for example, just because somebody tried drugs/alcohol or thought about it doesn’t make them users or addicts.

That you disagree with their reasoned conclusions is not my being (or anyone else being) bigoted.
Just trying to get the facts correct. Correct facts tend to make for better thinking and sometimes even better conclusions.

Your facts are correct and you stated them in a non-biased way with no bias or intent to judge. I thought it was well done. Unfortunately grasshopper can’t seem to do the same. A lot of the time it isn’t about what we are saying as much as it is about how we say it.

This comment is completely uncalled for, argumentative and careless. Asking for an apology after saying something like this is not only ironic, but moronic. Sorry Scott, you are the one that should apologize to Chris, but somehow I know you won’t.

Grasshopper has a way of saying things in an offensive and thoughtless manner, but he doesn’t see it that way. I’m not into the politically correct, overly sensitive way of doing things but I think it is VERY important to consider how others interpret what I say or do.

Except for liberals. Then facts don’t matter. He twisted the facts to justify his thought of leaving the Church. I home taught someone who’s two brothers were gay. One of the brothers used fake facts to sway her and she left the Church by using Prop 8.

I think the direction the Church has taken is positive. In the past, if you were found to be homosexual there was disfellowship rd and excommunication.

OK, Harold, I respect your opinion a great deal but you miss the point. You can make data fit any argument you want to make. You can say 3.5% and I can say 11% and we are both correct based on the data. I could point out that I have never even entertained the idea of kissing a man, the thought is kind of disgusting to me so any kind of same sex attraction IS foreign to me.

Here’s the point you miss. I am the father of a gay son, I get to be his father every day for the rest of my life, Wy Cowboy said as much. Has there been a lot of suffering along the way for my child and we as parents?

Is it 400,000 same sex attraction in the church or is it over 1,000,000? does it matter? The church says love them unconditionally, keep them close, which we have done. I personally would give gay people in the church a calling and welcome them and let God be the judge.

Thank you for that. Knowing that you do not agree with me on some points and yet “coming to the rescue” means a lot.

Thank you Fish for the compassion and love you showed your daughter’s friend. It was also a great learning experience for her. FYI Steve Young’s wife has a brother that is gay. Many of you may already know that. WYCOWBOY