The Jimmer effect - what exactly was it?

Did anyone read the article? I thought it was interesting… there were supposed to be some “untold stories” but a lot of it was stuff that people already knew, just repeated reminders of how things went for the Cougars in the WCC over the past 12 years. One thing I was never quite clear on was what exactly the Jimmer effect was? It’s the title of the article yet it never really points out the specifics. I believe there is the insinuation that BYU becoming a member of the WCC forced the hand of the other members of the conference to get better. I think that is a weak explanation for what came after, not a definitive reason for what really happened.

I have a theory, one that I have proposed and postulated for over a decade now here on this board. I think many of you will know what it is I am referring to. Allow me to explain myself.

The year before the Cougars joined the WCC, they played both St. Mary’s and Gonzaga who were (and still are) the two dominant programs in the WCC. They beat St. Mary’s by a point in a relatively meaningless early season tournament game. No big deal. What was a big deal is how Jimmer and the Cougars completely dismantled Gonzaga in the NCAA tournament, a much bigger deal that would have long lasting effects for the next decade plus. My beliefs and ideas are well known here on this board. They are backed up with plenty of evidence and proof that they are real. Gonzaga and, to a lesser extent, St. Mary’s are the face of the WCC. I have often referred to Gonzaga as the darlings of the WCC. They are the team that has really put the conference on the map. They have been very successful for quite some time. St. Mary’s has been really good as well, but they are not the level of program that Gonzaga is. This success and notoriety has often come at the expence of BYU. I am absolutely sure that BYU has had several teams that were as good or better than many of the Gonzaga/St. Mary’s teams over the past 12 years. They have proven it in games they have won during the regular seasons. They have had nationally ranked high level players post Jimmer. There were very few reasons why they should not have won the conference or conference tournament at least once during their time in the WCC. The odds, the quality of teams, etc. all point to rational, logical reasons for why they should have been champions at least once. However, it NEVER happened. Here is why -

Gonzaga is the darling of the WCC. They have been the beneficiary of multiple biased officiated games over the years. This year is a great example of how they were very mediocre, yet still won the conference. Yes, they lost a couple games but those were anomalies, games where they played so badly that the officiating was no help. They have a coach who is so respected that it will account for anywhere from 5-10 points in a game just because of who he is. Both coaches (GU and SMC) have said that BYU coming into the league made them work harder to be better. That may be true, it might not be. I do know it made them play harder and work the officials more than they probably ever thought they had to. That leads me to the most important x-factor and that is the officiating. I don’t think I have ever seen a team that so consistently gets the most biased officials overall that BYU has had. There are several who are well known haters. Many others don’t realize it but have suffered from the same inability to call an objective, fair game when officiating BYU teams. That is really the unfortunate fact of what I am speaking of. No team has had to consistently battle 5 vs. 8 like BYU has.

Having said that, do I think BYU was good enough to win the conference every year? No, I don’t… but they did finish second or third almost every year and it was the conference tournament where the most egregious bias typically showed itself as they never really came close to winning it. They made it to the championship game 4 times and lost by at least 10 points every time. Only St. Mary’s has beaten Gonzaga and they did it twice during BYU’s years in the WCC. How? unbiased officiating as a result of BYU not being in the final. There are astute and knowledgeable fans who will understand what I am referring to and there will be others who don’t have the knowledge or ability to see or understand it. I am okay with that. What I am not okay with is the historically biased officiating that helped create much of what took place over the past 12 years, its a shame.

Good luck to the Santa Clara’s, LMU’s and Pepperdine’s of the WCC. The likelihood of you winning a WCC title or tournament will increase somewhat going forward. Now that the officials or conference don’t have to focus their attention so much on making sure BYU doesn’t win, you might be able to slip under the radar.

I agree that happened during the regular season. There have been a few against the two teams I mentioned. However, that has NEVER been the case in wcc tournament games, though BYU made it to four finals and played at least one of those two teams every single year in the conference tournament. Don’t forget that in spite of whatever other reasons you may postulate, BYU never won a regular season title. Tweleve years of no conference title and no conference tournament title can’t be explained away so easily.

I had to move the discussion into the basketball category…

How long did it take for the Cubs to win a World Series from the last time? Not everything has to be a conspiracy. If there is bias like this, why is there no criminal investigations? Someone would have come forth with this? In these days, it’s impossible to keep this quiet for 12 years.

“BYU never won a regular season title. Tweleve years of no conference title and no conference tournament title can’t be explained away so easily.”

I bet we can say the same thing in twelve, no make that 20, years from now in whatever conferences we’ll be in. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

If Jim the Conspiracy leader is correct, then we should have a better chance in the Big12 because the refs won’t be bigoted against BYU.

Agree but does it really matter? Competing level in the B12 will be far greater or tougher than those wcc rec schools. B12 refs don’t have to worry about BYU beating Kansas, KSU, TTU, and so on will be hard to keep up consistently when unless BYU can bring in better players. Yes, Jim would say that the Jayhawks are the Darling of this B12 League. Just like GU of wcc.
Anyway we got 1,2,3 or 4 more games to play in the wcc tournament in LV (well maybe 1 or 2 games left).

I thought BYU would win multiple WCC titles. The old
WAC and the Mountain West were both better conferences than the WCC and BYU won multiple conference titles in both of those leagues
so the lack of success in the WCC is a mystery to

Talent wise, we were the GU of those leagues. For what ever reason, we are unable to get the 7 footers to come often.

Pope got Matt Haarms for one year and he had one more year of eligibility but he decided to go pro in Europe I assume. Harward was a good big but he had the heart issue that cut his career short by two years Since then he hasn’t signed a big that was ready to play as a starter.

No mystery, I explained it in enough detail. As expected the hopper completely missed the point. He always starts throwing out nonsense about criminal investigations, conspiracies and keeping it quiet for 12 years… he’s pretty clueless.

I have been clear. The Jimmer factor as I explained it and the general bias of so many officials over the years, in a heavily religious basketball conference, was enough to relegate BYU to second/third place for the duration of their stay. Everyone knew it wasn’t going to be permanent. How long was BYU supposed to play basketball in high school gyms?

More nonsense. What is going on with you? I thought you were coming around and now you’ve slipped backwards. There were a lot of teams with a lot of talent in those conferences. WAY MORE than there is in the WCC. Like Aro said, the MWC and WAC had way more talent than the WCC does. BYU was not the GU, talent wise, of those conferences.

I do agree with pmac about where BYU will find itself in the Big 12. They will not be anywhere close to winning a championship. Kansas is the darling of the Big 12 but there are a whole lot of other teams that are right there. BYU will not be one of them anytime soon. If you want to yap about conferences with talent, look at the Big 12. This is the best basketball conference in the nation.

Ummm…GU has had more talent than the MWC and WAC teams as it pertains to the time period. We know that in the 70’s and 80’s the NBA didn’t go after the college players like what happens today. So, of course those teams had talent. But, respectively now, GU has had more NBA talent than BYU. You simple have a mental block on this issue. First it’s the refs now it’s something else. What will it be tomorrow? Our guards and forwards are as good as GU and SM. We don’t have enough bigs and actually just one big. Fousse is a forward. Does well in the post.

So Hopper -

Here is the quote and comment I was referencing, one I happen to agree with. What is it about this comment by Aro that you don’t understand? The conference overall had more talented teams. Yes, Gonzaga has had some very good teams in the past 12 years with lots of talent but not every year. BYU has been equal or even better some of those years yet failed to win ANYTHING.

Please stay on point or dont’ bother to post. You consistently misunderstand and misconstrue others comments and posts. I thought it was turning a corner somewhat but you are falling back into your old ways again.

Back in the fish pond? And we keep giving him more bait again and again and again.

The Jimmer Effect: Dave Rose Forgets How to Coach Defense

WAC/MWC vs WCC Basketball: Did the WAC or MWC ever have a perrenial power as good as Gonzaga? BYU would have won multiple WCC titles without Gonzaga in the way.

Exactly! Good that we have people here that don’t buy into conspiracy theories. In the glory days of basketball, we were the Gonzaga of those leagues. We just haven’t been able to recruit enough good big men. Maybe that will change in the Big12.

Nope! I am allowed to push back when attacked. I’ve been gracious and engaging since January 1st. Have you?

Yes you have Hopper. Good on you.

Regarding GU and WAC and MWC. The GU of the last 10, maybe 15 years would have won the WAC and MWC 40 to 50% of the time, in my opinion. Just have been superior, elite teams on national level.

Yep, Big 12 will be crazy tuff. Instead of just 1 elite team to play (St Mary’s is not an elite team-close just this year) there will be 6-8 elite teams. Some we’ll play twice a year I presume. that is really rough. I can’t imagine any team in the Big 12 losing to Pederdine or that level of a team.
BUT - It’ll be exciting to play and sometimes compete and maybe win a few here and there against those elite teams.

I love the woulda, coulda, shoulda response. Isn’t that always the case with BYU? So that is the new reason BYU NEVER won a WCC title? Gonzaga was just too good? I’m not buying it. Yes, they have been a good team for some time but… that all started the year after Jimmer left? The year after he destroyed them in the NCAA tournament? and likewise, BYU just wasn’t very good after Jimmer left as well. I guess that must be it, none of the BYU teams post Jimmer has been any good and even if they were, Gonzaga was just so dominant a perrenial power in the conference that BYU just couldn’t do it. St. Mary’s was good enough to dethrone the perennial power a couple times but BYU NEVER was?

Sorry, it is a decent argument but like I said, it doesn’t explain 12 years of ZERO regular season or WCC tournament titles. It’s too easy to make that claim, especially if a person hasn’t been watching BYU basketball religiously for the past few decades.

Go ahead and jump on the hopper train to nowhere. He provides the simple, non descript reasons that don’t take much thinking, like BYU missed too many easy shots, BYU committed too many fouls, etc.

If you really see what is going on, it’s not that hard. I’ve been pointing out specifics after games for a long time. It isn’t a scripted conspiracy but there is some credibility to the narrative of Gonzaga getting favorable treatment. Yes, they are good but without a perrenial champion, the WCC would be an also ran that nobody would care about. In fact that is where they almost are now.

Does the WCC get stronger with the departure of BYU? Do Gonzaga and St. Mary’s have reason to “get better” as their coaches claimed they tried to do when BYU came in? Didn’t the WCC always know BYU probably wasn’t going to stick around, playing in high school gyms that hold 2,000 fans as opposed to the MC that holds 20,000? What incentive was in place for the WCC to treat BYU as anything more than a temporary cash cow? just like the MWC did? There was NO incentive. BYU got exactly what they should have been expecting when they came in. A conference that was happy to have the revenue, but not enough to give them a chance to win anything. Truth is there was NEVER a chance for BYU to win the WCC season or tournament and we all should have recognized it when they embarrassed Gonzaga all those years ago.