The sticking point, according to what I have read

Football
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Jim: They didn’t ride a bus so they could add on to the weight room. They rode a bus because it is only 5 hours away. Do you ever use rational thought before you type your comments?

Scott: I would invite you to listen to yesterday’s and today’s BYU Sports Nation and become informed before writing. This is exactly what the players and coaches said. Sorry for not believing that you have rational thoughts :wink:

Jim: As far as the reasons for why Bronco left, you don’t know that one of his reasons for leaving was because he got significantly more money. He’s a good guy but the money was absolutely one of the reasons.

Scott: There is no report whatsoever that backs you up. Yes, he is getting more money. But, his decision was more like a knee jerk reaction and I don’t think it was because he was going to get paid more. Like you, he understands that money isn’t the number one on the list of importance and priorities. To say he left for the money is not accurate.

Jim: My happiness has nothing to do with whether I live in a capitalist country. In fact, the happiness level of people in a given country has nothing to do with capitalism or how much money they make.

Scott: Tell that to a poor person in a third world country who hasn’t eaten for a week. Tell that to a person in a capitalist country who isn’t making it financially. Money by itself won’t make one happy. But, it does make living easier if used properly. The other thing wrong with your statement is that countries that are not capitalists also are mostly socialist, communists, fascists or dictatorships which suffocate religious freedom, free speech and other things that do make people happy.

Jim: Thankfully, BYU is steadfast in being different and separating themselves from the rest of the CAPITALIST universities in the country. How do you think other universities are able to pay their professors huge salaries? Could it be that they are charging huge fees for getting an education?

Scott: Not at all are they different. They are just as capitalistic as any university. One difference that they do that many others don’t do is hire teachers one year at a time. No tenure. Makes a difference in cost because they can pay less. Tenure has nothing to do with capitalism. Also, other universities can pay their professors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year because they get money from the Feds more than BYU does. That’s crony capitalism. And, the salaries are driving the costs higher for the students, not the other way around. Do some study on this subject and you will be enlightened :slight_smile:

Jim: Please tell me how being in debt for the rest of your life because of the cost for a college education is necessary or even the “market” deciding the price of “services”? It’s a system that is messed up.

Scott: Agreed! Get rid of tenure to start with. Get the federal government out of the education business. You will see prices drop!

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Craig, I hope you’re wrong, about the idea of terminating sports at BYU. BYU Idaho and BYU Hawaii are different stories. My son recently graduated from BYUH and played on the golf team—says that the word on the street was that plenty of alums were willing to bankroll the sports program (bball, volleyball, etc.) but the church said “no thanks.” BYU Provo is a different deal—a real national brand. The issue is always basic, whether the existence of the program benefits the school (church) more than not. I have to think it does: the outreach around the world on BYUTV, the missionary work, keeping he name of the church and school out there, on ESPN, in the papers, etc.

I am still troubled by the narrative that we may have lost worthy candidates for lack of money. The powers that be, on the Bd Trustees, are sharp, wise, forward-looking men. I mean, look at Pres Eyring (PhD biz from Harvard), Elder Oaks, all the rest. Elder Rasband was a big muckamuck at Huntsman. These men know what money is and how it works.

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And, because they are business men they look to see if any program is worth keeping financially too. I tend to believe that people would be willing to pay more for their seats at the stadium. Students pay a bit more for tuition. Whatever it takes to keep a great missionary program going.
Not sure at BYU how many classes a teacher is required to teach every year. At State schools they don’t actually teach much. But, the head coach works countless hours, especially during the season. I wonder if the hours were counted, are head coaches really over-paid when hours at work are considered? Just asking.

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Right on Floyd. BYU better put up or shut up. I don’t know for sure, but if the BOT/BOD wants to hire a competitive HC and assistants they either should get out of the way and let the AD handle the business once the BOT/BOD sets limits on how much money they are willing to pay to hire a HC and assistants. If the BOT/BOD doesn’t want to pay enough to hire a competitive HC, etc., then BYU ought to either go to the FCS level and cut as many sports as is necessary when the school doesn’t receive enough money from an FCS level football program to support the number of sports programs we now have, including all women’s sports, none which currently pay for themselves.Or the BOD/BOT ought to pay what is necessary to hire HC and staff to support the present level of BYU sports programs, or as has been suggested, become another BYU-Idaho and drop sports all together. If BYU does drop sports, then I believe that many alumni will lower their donations to BYU and the school could become just another computer based college without flagship status.

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Yes, but many if not most know nothing about football. And please everyone don’t question my commitment to the church or anything, but great leaders stick to what they know best and delegate the rest and get outta the way. I hope this case is the latter. L Tom Perry was the ultimate champion for BYU sports. Easy solution: Gifford Nelson for Apostleship!!!

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0.00% chance BYU drops sports.

1 Like
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BYU Provo is more of a traditional university than the sister campuses. Sports, therefore, is a marketing tool. And as a side benefit, a missionary tool for the church. But the program has to be self-sustaining. I think that is the main reason sports were dropped at the other campuses. As long as the church doesn’t have to spend tithing money to support BYU sports, the sports program will continue.

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Right on Ben H. Somehow I got onto a “private conversation” on this stupid Board in trying to respond to tlarimer on,“The Sticking Point, according to what I have read.” This Board is about as competent as the BYU process of hiring a HC and assistants to replace Bronco Mendahall. Ain’t it beautiful.

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Maybe you should do some study on this subject and you will be enlightened. If Nick Saban worked 24 hours a day during the entire football season and never slept, he would still be making about $1,000/hour… LOL! and I am being generous. If he put in 5000 hours a year coaching football (more than twice the hours an 8 hour a day employee puts in every year) that would be it. Also, I’m sorry that you feel the need to separate the different varieties of “capitalism” in order to make your point but you have to take the good with the bad and right now there is way more crony capitalism in our society than you would like to admit. Dishonesty and cheating is rampant… the majority of people have no problem cheating their fellow man to get ahead…

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How much are the professors making? $400,000? And, they may teach one or two classes every other day? And, they will teach 9 months? So, they teach about 200 hours a year. Give them another 200 for prep and tutoring time. That’s $1,000 an hour…enough said.
Now, is there a bowl party at the Hawks tomorrow at 12:30 pm? :slight_smile:

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We will be here.

So what you are saying is that the $1,000 per hour is legitimate for the service they provide?

Okay… you crony capitalist. :wink:

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Not saying that at all. It’s rediculous what they get paid for little work. But it’s not their fault either. The whole system has to be overhauled. But it won’t be. But it does prove my point that the coaches aren’t being paid too much in comparison of teachers with the work load.

I’ll be there with some chicken or cheese balls?

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Come on-I can see why they might consider dropping athletics-title nine-but the only two sports that make money are men’s football and basketball. So if you are going to keep athletics-doesn’t it seem likely that you would want to have those key programs running at as close to 100% as possible, because if you don’t-the stands aren’t going to be full, and you have a lot of fan and alumni dissatisfaction. I can remember sleeping all night in line to get into BYU football and basketball games, now it’s not difficult to get tickets to big games such as BSU. I don’t know what they could do to improve the basketball program, before Rose, we weren’t very good, but the football program has suffered some hits lately, so I hope they get this right and the best coach may have trouble, if he doesn’t have an adequate staff. I will miss Mendenhall-he was a good face for the program-and despite what some of you hint at, an honest integrity. But that’s all history-time to move on-but what happens next, may change the face of BYU athletics. I think Sitake would be a good hire, defensively, but they need a good OC, so maybe the delay is waiting for some OC to get his bowl game done with-shrug- :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: