See I told you this is a new era for BYU, Grimes is holding everyone accountable, not just Mangum.
As Kalani said, there was blame enough to go around rather than on one person.
If I recall BYU has never done well without a really good QB. U correct me if I’m wrong. It’s not that Mangum is so bad-he just isn’t great. Most great QBs that have come out of the Y have had a shot in the NFL. I CAN’T imagine unless he completely turns his game around, anyone giving him a second look. BYU will beat the LOWER RANKED TEAMS AND LOSE TO THE GOOD ONES this year. The advantage at giving Wilson time is to get a jump on next yesr
To me Mangum is the product of a missed managed team. Last year he seemed to go into a psychological funk. To me he obviously lost his confidence, in my opinion, because he was benched from being number 1 at QB in 2016 when the team returned Hill to starting QB in 2016. I think that move led to Mangum’s loss of confidence at QB.
In another personnel situation KJ Hall quit football because he was not given a football scholarship this season. To me Hall was a good alternative at RB. But for some reason Hall was not given a scholarship this season. To me it was another sign of mismanagement of the BYU football team. I don’t know why KJ Hall was not given a scholarship in 2018. Outside of Squally Canada, I don’t see another BYU running bacl better than KJ Hall on the team this year. What you ye have to say about this matter, anybody?
Fact! but then no team does well without good QB play. BYU is highlighted due to our honor code and the fact that we just can’t get many 4 star players. QB becomes essential.
Talk radio is covering 10 hours a day on if Tanner will be benched. Reporters have their sources, which they will not divulge but they are saying that Wilson has gotten 60% of the reps this week. I am on record for NOT benching Mangum until these murder games are over. Monson (who I absolutely despise) makes the point and it is a valid one, “So you listen to all the fans calling for Wilson and he comes out and gets roasted by Wisc, or Wash, and you know it will happen…and then what have you got? You’ve told your starter, Mangum (who is a head case) that he’s no good and you damaged the new kid”. “That is a way you wreck a program, right there”
I’ve been around a lot of horses. some are head cases and they never change, eventually you sell them. Some you pack with anything under the sun, including dead animals and they are like, “just point the way”. QBs have to have the mentality that the next play is the only one that matters. “Put me in Coach, I’m ready to play”
Never will I agree with anyone that you have to coddle athletes anymore then anything else in life…Some will curl up and go fetal on you while others may be getting the crap kicked out of them and they look up and say, “We’ve got them right where we want Em”. LETs GO!
True story, I used to play college bball with this really good guard and in warm ups he would whisper, “man, those guys are really big, they are going to kill us”. I’d go, “Cody, they’ve got to come out to cover our 3s and you get it going we will have lay up city”. He would always have a terrible 1st half until I hit a few or we got in on a roll, then he would play lights out and we’d kill em. Head Case. QBs have to have a Washington mentality (Washington lost every single battle for the 1st year or two of the Rev. war. But he figured it out and he knew we were fighting for life itself while the paid Hessians and the Torys were fighting for fame and fortune.
PLay Tanner until we get a McNeese state, then get the young’uns some game time…now is not the time.
You can see the signs (from what Sitake has said) that he is feeling the heat and the fan unrest, and despite what he had previously said, Mangum is now on a short leash. I think Sitake himself is hearing footsteps affecting his job. Given Mangum’s psyche, I think that means he will collapse and be replaced. Sorry, Floyd!
I totally agree about Wilson. I would play Critchlow instead, because of game experience). I would not have eliminated Beau Hoge from the race completely, because we need a dual-threat option. I also think he played the best out of our quarterbacks last year before he got hurt.
Under no circumstances would I play Wilson up at Wisconsin. But then again, that is how legends are born. If he can take the heat and play well, then (in hindsight) it would have been a good move. I just think you have to not have that team and situation be his first college snaps.
Would you site your sources for KJ Hall?
According to the local papers, and his dad, KJ could not heal from an injuries he sustained over the last few years, He decided to stop playing football for medical reasons. Same for Trey Dye, he retired from playing for medical reasons.
If it was about a scholarship, he could have transferred to Weber or some other lower level school and played immediately.
As for Mangum, you might be on to something.
Isn’t that the truth…
I am still in the camp, that Grimes is being very methodical and slow for a reason. I am not sure exactly what that reason is, but he has something in mind that we as fans or media is not privy too.
I think the biggest thing that happened last year, (if you want to blame Sitake, then fine, but you also have to blame Ty Detmer as well because he was in charge of the offense) that really hurt was the players lost confidence in themselves and their teammates. They have the talent, but the mental focus was not only gone, but destroyed.
That is what happens when you do the “Family Friendly” environment both Sitake and Detmer created where they did not hold anyone accountable for their actions on the field or off the field.
and let’s be absolutely honest here guys, the main reason that you guys are so hard on Kalani Sitake is because he deep six’d you beloved Ty Detmer.
I loved Ty as a QB, I thought he would be good OC, I was wrong, because Ty needed some seasoning before coming to that position.
Do you know how many times I have found that Talk Radio has been wrong? Especially when it comes to Hans Olsen and PK.
The one I would listen to is Ben Criddle, He seems to have a more level approach to the team. Hans must have been “dissed” at BYU, because very seldom do I hear him say something positive about BYU, it is all Utah for him.
I don’t think Sitake is hearing foot steps… I think that is wishful thinking on fans part. I believe that Grimes will turn things around.
So answer me this question: Why was McMahon, Young, Bosco and Detmer so good? It was not only because they were good QB’s, but they also had play makers… Who currently on this team is a play maker for Tanner?
According to Alema Harrington, Frank Dolce and Reiley Jensen… “NO ONE” on the team is a play maker. Think about that for a moment!
Play Makers: Taki taki, Kaufusi, Certainly Tonga, Ghanwoloku, Anderson.
The entire Oline, Certainly El Bakri, Hifo, Bushman, Pututau
Future play makers-Katoa, Gunner Romney
It just takes time for players to get assignments down when you have a new scheme and a lot of new guys. We get the kind of Offense that Grimes wants that grinds out 1st downs and they will catch up to the defense. We start winning.
I don’t listen to talk radio. I’m forming my opinion based on Sitake’s statements that a) Mangum is being re-evaluated, and then later b) everyone is being re-evaluated. Pretty clearly (to me), Sitake is finding that his early pre-season “Mangum won’t get yanked if he plays badly” isn’t going to work. If he stays that course, he will be fired. But, he also knows that he pretty much said Mangum was the guy, come heck or high water, hence the whiplash in public statements.
The drumbeats are only going to get worse.
[quote=“Floyd_Edwards, post:7, topic:8063”]
and let’s be absolutely honest here guys, the main reason that you guys are so hard on Kalani Sitake is because he deep six’d you beloved Ty Detmer.[/quote]
My parents are in the MTC, and were at the game. During the 3rd quarter, they said that the crowd started chanting loudly, “We want Detmer!” Yes, the immediate scapegoating of Detmer isn’t sitting well with many fans (probably most). If we then hire Grimes and struggle just as much, the natives are going to be restless.
But it sounds like you have all the patience in the world with Grimes. Years, if need be. Why no such patience for Detmer? I also like how when Grimes struggles, we have to be patient because he’s playing 4D chess and we just don’t know what the mater plan is.
I don’t think the blame is squarely Detmer’s, and I’m beginning to think that Sitake bears a lot for his management of the team, his coordinators, and his laid back way.
Sorry Chris, I was mainly talking about offense, sorry I was not more clear…
I will give you credit for the O-line, but since they don’t catch passes and makes TD’s on their own, let’s exclude them for now.
El Bakri, Hifo, Bushman, Pututau: How many of these are CURRENTLY being play makers on a consistent basis? NONE! In the CAL game how many of these guys performed as Play Makers?
Katoa, Not sure why he is not playing more
Gunner Romney fumbled his first catch.
I was never liked that Detmer becoming the OC in the first place for the reasons I said before “No D1 Experience”. In this day and age of college football you have to have experience as a coach (not necessarily OC) to become a better OC.
I thought that they set Detmer up to fail (meaning Holmoe) by putting him in a position that he was clearly not ready for.
Second, yes I am willing to give Grimes a couple of years to turn the offense around for the very same reason that I didn’t give Detmer. Grimes has 20+ years D1 coaching experience, then you add in Fesi, Clark, Lamb, and Roderick experiences as D1 coaches. They have some knowledge on how to turn the team around.
As for Sitake, your right, when he was first hired, he said he wanted to bring back the environment of “Edwards”. Where the players were welcome in the office, come in and sit down with the HC to talk about anything (you remember, Bronco did not allow players to do that). The way he remembered it. Because the that environment, it caused the players to not taking playing as serious as they should of. That blame goes all around on the coaching staff.
Today, there is accountability, the players can still come in and hang out with the coaches, talk or whatever, but when they hit the field it is all business.
The thing most of the fans don’t realize or maybe have forgotten, is that with Grimes…EVERYONE ONE of the starters (Offense side) earned their positions. He told all his coaches to not watch any tape of the players, but judge them on what they did during practice. No one was given a free ride because they started last year. They had to earn it. The players all knew that, they all accepted that the starters beat them out (if they did not start).
I have a very good friend that played for Grimes. He told me of all the coaches he ever played for (about three of them) Grimes was the only one he felt played the best players based on what they did in practice. No playing favorites.
I actually know Kalani through his dad, to say he is laid back is not accurate. He is very intense when it comes to coaching his players. Ask any of the former Utah players who played for him.
after saying all that, I will say that I see things through my own set of blue colored glasses.
I agree. I remember going to a game at Long Beach State back in about 1981. I took my dad and after our receivers caught balls while flying in the air and getting hit at the same time. Back in those days there was no hearing footsteps. My dad made the comment “Now I know why BYU quarterbacks are so good. It’s their receivers.”
Mangum doesn’t help his receivers. He is throwing behind them and short. He seems to be a great practice player but not during the games. Detmer came in as a freshman. If Wilson is a game player and not just a great practice player then play him regardless who the team we are playing.
Actually I think the receivers are pretty good-much better than a year ago. I don’t think Tanner sees the field very well and has trouble checking off receivers, thus his interception ratio will always be high. I like his arm but he seems clumsy from the snap to the release and because of that he often short arms the ball. Sorry, he doesn’t remind me of any BYU greats no matter who his supporting cast is and that disappoints me because he grew u around where I live and I had high expectations
Like I said before, I think a lot of players on the offense are bit gun shy. I think they got thrown under the bus by fans, media and some coaches last year.
I think overall the offense has improved, O-line definitely, Tight ends as well. Receivers I think are playing good but need to find a way to get open more. RB’s I the Canada is doing good, but not sure what happen to Kotoa, is he nursing an injury?
I heard Rielly Jensen who was a QB at USU and is part of a group on Channel 2 sports that talks about the local teams say that he thinks Tanner has problems throwing over the middle, he does pretty good when the throws are going toward the sidelines, but over the middle he seems to hesitate.
I am not sure if he is right or not, but along with your comments, I could believe it.
What happened to Bushman in the Cal game? I remember him making a catch and I didn’t see anything thrown to him again or did he come out of the game and disappear? I thought where is he later in the game.
The Harrington twins were definitions of non play makers when they were at BYU. They always thought more of themselves than the coaches did! By the opinions they throw out there you would think they were regulars in the starting lineups. They occasionally saw the field in practice and some special teams plays. I think there are several play makers on offense but we will never find out if there isn’t a play-maker at the quarterback position… which I have been saying for 2 years now.
Tanner has problems throwing to his left. He has problems throwing with any accuracy more than 25 yds down field. If he rolls to the right and reverses course to the left… almost a sure disaster will ensue. Throws will be short, behind the receiver or thrown to the other team!
Here is my theory on this: there are maybe 50 “second tier” D1 programs, and we are one of them; some years we are near the top of that tier and some years we are near the bottom. In a few outlier seasons we move into the top tier, and in a few outliers we move below the 2nd tier. But over time we will always wind up where we belong, due to HC and academic standards that will not change. Those 50 teams each have 85 scholarships to award, and about 75 of the 85 kids are interchangeable talent wise with those of any other school. So the teams ebb and flow within tier two, but those teams all have average talent; the few that rise up each year are the ones with great QB play. Wisconsin’s overall talent is on a whole other level, and they don’t need great QB play. Alabama could start anyone at QB and win 10 games. The BYUs and USUs and UofUs and WSUs and UNCs of the world, the lowly inhabitants of “tier two,” only jump out of the pack in those seasons when they have a Ty Detmer or Alex Smith or Chuckie Keaton or Ryan Leach or Mitch Trubisky running the show. But all those schools fall pretty hard when Mr. Average is under center. We have watched that for two games and I hope I’m wrong, but I predict we will be cringing with a barf bag close by tomorrow.
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