Yeah, maybe I’m being a little hard on Rose. Its frustrating that BYU hasn’t won a WCC championship. Let’s see how this season plays out. Maybe he can turn things around. Injuries do throw a wrench in everything so you really can’t fault the coaches when players are not able to contribute as planned.
I agree with the inside game part of it but unless BYU can start hitting wide open 3’s with some consistency, it will be a lot easier for the other wcc teams to compete with BYU. I haven’t seen an “outside” game so far. How many games is it going to take before it happens?
Comparing current coaches to past ones is another way of allowing oneself to accept mediocrity. These are the LP3 years, the lore of mythical high school national championships are talked about incessantly. This is the group of players that is supposed to make runs to the sweet 16, elite 8 or final four in the ncaa tourney. Right now, they don’t have a real good chance at even making it into the big dance, let alone doing something once they are there. Of course he is not doing badly, he is a very good coach… with a very talented, but overall very immature group of players.
By maturity I don’t mean mission rust or experience, I mean growing up in knowing what it takes to get to the next level. They aren’t figuring it out. When things are good, they get carried away and ruin it… among other issues.
Coach Rose…is not managing this team well. He has his injury problems, Davis, Bryant and to a lesser extent, Rose and with those guys BYU is formidable. But he sits Guinn and Dastrup, plays suspect Leifson and Shaw in important minutes at the end of the IU game…I my book, unexplainable.
Rose values offense much higher than he values defense, its in his DNA. Fact. He may be a good coach but he is no where near a great coach. Defense is 50% of the game. He either has to retire or these guys have to play defense in spite of their coach.
If you were to ask Coach Fischer of SDSU, or Coach K or Coach Few, or Virginia’s coach, they would just laugh at how Coach Rose approaches defense.
I thought that’s what Lewis signed on for?
I noticed a few times that when Mika or one of the other LP3 guys went out of the game they would go sit next to their former coach and he would talk to them, perhaps about the things they could do to avoid a foul or position themselves defensively better.
The coaching dynamics of the team must be a little strange or confusing at times. Maybe this is part of the problem?
14 of 17 Gonzaga players are underclassmen…
Gonzaga’s bball roster shows 8 upperclassmen
http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/gonz-m-baskbl-mtt.html
and three of their underclassman are sophomore redshirt transfers.
Using KenPom experience stats:
Experience:
BYU 1.25 yrs 307
Gonzaga 1.75 yrs 162
BYU is near the youngest NCAA teams in terms of experience while Gonzaga is very average.
Incidentally they are also nearly an inch taller.
Once again I made a mistake.
I was referring to the fact that they only have 3 seniors on their roster of 17 players. BYU is about the same with only 2 seniors on their roster of 15 players.
The point is that there is not much difference between the two teams. Do you know how many of Gonzaga’s players are top 100 espn recruits? I think BYU has 4, correct? Mika, Haws, Emery and Dastrup.
Also, half of BYU’s players are from Utah but only 1 of Gonzaga’s players is from Washington. But I won’t mention that because people will get upset and read something into it. I am only stating facts.
Incidentally, St. Mary’s has 4 players from California, which has more than 10 times the population of Utah.
Maybe some of these facts are helping us understand why BYU can’t seem to progress in the wcc…
Yeh I noticed the same thing. BYU probably should hire the old UNLV coach back to run the offense 
Not much in the way of a comparison really.
The scheme and talent are there and the team has been well above average defensively; the team will likely see more success in the future as continuity continues to grow.
Well above average of course doesn’t mean championship quality the way they were before Coach Pope showed up and took over the defense. But it has definitely been an improvement since Coach Lewis showed up.
Always an excuse for Rose. I think his days at BYU are numbered.
Right…Fire one of the best 10 coaches in the US.
to fill his place with…? all those eager LDS coaches just filling division 1 ranks with 25 game winning seasons.
Harold, I appreciate your tempered remarks. We have watched Rose coach less talented teams to some fairly good years and he should get credit for that.
I just can’t understand his rotations in crunch time. In the Colo. game he inserts Beo, along with Haws and Emery and they ride that to a win, at IU, we don’t see Beo but Leifson, a guy that has 0 game experience let alone crunch time. I fully expected Beo or the Haws, Emery, Rose trio. Either Rose knows things none of us even thought about or he has lost his edge…keep in mind when BYU got down in the 1st half, it was Haws-Emery driving, passing and big shots that got us back to within 3 points to end the half.
We see Guinn shut down Jalen Moore in the USU game and make some shots along the way only to see his minutes dwindle. Every game I have watched with Guinn defending, he gets the assignment of these bigger bodied guys, then we play USC and IU, both teams with guys in the 6’5-6’6, 220 range and we get Emery, Rose or heaven forbid, buck 70, Haws just getting overpowered by these guys and yet Guinn sits
Just for kicks and giggles, check out Guinn’s 3 point stats on the year vs. Beo or Leifson’s %…
Guinn@33%
[email protected]% poor defender, no ball handling skills.
Beo@25% OK defender, excellent ball handling skills.
Guinn’s defensive stats, hustle, steals and ability to defend a big strong scorer, no comparison.
One last argument…Coach Pope leaves for UVU and turns Neilson into a strong, muscled scoring machine. Our LP coach, Quincy Lewis, is highly respected by the coaching world and loved by his players. I see him coaching the the kids when they come out throughout the game. Rose could retire now, I would not have any problem with it. Rose does not prepare teams for post season play, no defense.
. These are the reasons why I think Rose lost his edge.
If the coach doesn’t know more than the fans then things are pretty skewampus.
My impression is that Rose was exceedingly frustrated by the KC/Haws years.and that part of his excitement for this team was that finally things would get back to normal for him.
He played for a national championship final team, he coached such a team at Dixie, he expected, (I think still expects) to get to that level at BYU. This year he thought he finally had the talent to right things. The Bryant injury hurt a lot. Imagine the Jimmer teams without the Jimmer–good but not points away from the final 8. Brandon Davies incident harmed Rose much more than I suspect most folks understand. Gospel in action on so many levels.I’m not saying Elijah is a Jimmer. Just that the team with him had talent on that level and without him and his experience…well we see Rose’s and the team’s growing pains.
The complete lack of playing time for Dastrup is the biggest mystery to me. Yeah, guys like grasshopper will say “he’s out of shape” or “he’s rusty” but that hasn’t stopped Rose from playing his top 100 superstar Haws. So who is more out of shape, Haws or Dastrup? They are both top 100’s, right?
There are other strange substitution patterns but that is the big one.
When it comes to guards other than Haws and Emery and to a lesser extent Rose, it seems like they get a minute or two to demonstrate if they warrant more time in a specific game. If they miss a shot or commit a turnover then that is it for that game. If they hit a shot, like Leifson did against Illinois, then they get the bulk of the non Haws/Emery/Rose minutes.
That is why I suggested that it seemed to be desperate or confusing.
Is it possible that this is the primary reason he doesn’t seem to want to allow any guard besides Emery, Haws or Rose to become a factor or help the team? Is he waiting out the return of Bryant and tentative about what might happen if Beo, Leifson, or Guinn started to develop or shine and make the team better?
This is a serious question. I am trying to get into the mind and psyche of the coach, the politics and the reasons for what is going on. It appears to be more complicated than it should be.
my argument continued…
We see Guinn shut down Jalen Moore in the USU game and make some shots along the way only to see his minutes dwindle. Every game I have watched with Guinn defending, he gets the assignment of these bigger bodied guys, then we play USC and IU, both teams with guys in the 6’5-6’6, 220 range and we get Emery, Rose or heaven forbid, buck 70, Haws just getting overpowered by these guys and yet Guinn sits
Just for kicks and giggles, check out Guinn’s 3 point stats on the year vs. Beo or Leifson’s %…
Guinn@33%
[email protected]% poor defender, no ball handling skills
.Beo@25% OK defender, excellent ball handling skills.Guinn’s defensive stats, hustle, steals and ability to defend a big strong scorer, no comparison.
One last argument…Coach Pope leaves for UVU and turns Neilson into a strong, muscled scoring machine. Our LP coach, Quincy Lewis, is highly respected by the coaching world and loved by his players. I see him coaching the the kids when they come out throughout the game. Rose could retire now, I would not have any problem with it. Rose does not prepare teams for post season play, no defense.
. These are the reasons why I think Rose lost his edge.
No way Haws is a buck seventy. I would be surprised if he is a pound over 150. I think Emery is not much more than that either. Emery is a little stronger but both of them get knocked around when they go inside.
Just adding my two cents.