We aren't very good

Never thought I’d say this but we are an average team. We can’t get ready for games mentally. A blocker on a punt is there to block and he leaves the rusher untouched.

I watched the replay because I was out for a birthday dinner for one of my kids. I didn’t check the final score and got really nervous when the game started out 14-0. The team rarely looks prepared to play and it is frustrating to watch. I kept wondering why they didn’t blitz the second ECU qb. In fact I wondered a lot of things…

So I kept turning back and forth between the BYU replay and the Utah game. Cal has a good qb but he is a lot like the UCLA qb… threw 5 picks or Cal probably would have won. The Utah qb is just so so in my opinion but they have a great rb. Still have a hard time with their fans but that may never change. They could win a national championship and most of the coverage would include disparaging BYU in some way. They just really don’t know how to root for a team without it including that.

Nice for BYU to win the game but I don’t see them winning the rest of the way. They will probably finish with 4 losses, go to a meaningless bowl game and start talking about how good they will be next year.

Agree with both of you and especially this from Jim, “. . . but I don’t see them winning the rest of the way. They will probably finish with 4 losses, go to a meaningless bowl game and start talking about how good they will be next year.”

That’s because we will be starting a 3rd string QB. Unless Mangum just had a cramp. Other than that, we can win out.

We wouldn’t have this conversation if Hill and Williams were playing all these games.

One could hope so.

We could win out if BYU had an offensive coordinator, which they don’t. Utah State and Boise State lost their number 1 to injury and they haven’t missed a beat. That is because their coaches, coach their players up. They open up the playbook. They don’t baby them along. They don’t only coach the number ones in every position. They prepare their 2’s and 3’s too. That’s my take.

DALE: Don’t you think that the BYU coaches train all of their players.After last night’s game I looked at the BYU roster and depth chart and found that we are down to many second and third levels of positions of players. In some cases we don’t even have a real second string player left. They list depths as people playing at the second level who start in some positions. After watching the UCONN game last week and reviewing the BYU roster last night I came to realize that it is very doubtful that BYU could ever recruit four levels of trained up players because of the restrictions at BYU and the Honor Code and the fact that well over 80% of the BYU team is returned missionaries. I am sure that all of these RM’s want to play at BYU.
But do you really believe that BYU can compete with non-LDS teams like Alabama, upper-level PAC-12.rosters as well as the SEC and ACC rosters. Even the Big 10 (12), which to me is the lowest of the P-5 conferences in over all talent level would give BYU a run for their money in recruiting. I could say the same about the upper-level Big 10 teams too as compared to the possibility of recruiting at BYU. What BYU has is very good quality, but we can’t compete in quantity or depth. But I doubt that BYU can compete consistently at the P-5 level in recruiting given the state of college football, Division I FBS these days.BYU would compete well in a conference like the American Athlete Conference.

I think that possibly Tanner Mangum may well have hurt his hamstring because after six games his LDS-RM body may have reached it’s limit because he has not played in two years and his conditioning will take another year or more before he can go twelve games in a row without getting hurt.

I think there is some overreaction about our performance on Saturday. Our team is not average – it is quite good. Our only losses thus far are by a single point on the road in a game we were leading throughout, and a very poor game played against the best defense in the nation (Michigan now has 3 consecutive shutouts and 5 of 6 games allowing 7 points or less). With Mangum (or Hill for that matter), this team is definitely Top 25 material, and I think we will be there at the end of the season. Yes, we made some mistakes yesterday, but ECU is a pretty respectable team. That second QB is a very talented guy, and he was hitting his targets all game. I think the only reason ECU got back into the game was Tanner’s injury. The defense was tired, and 3 or 4 consecutive 3-and-outs with Hoge as QB (well, perhaps they got one first down) just put too much pressure on the defense.

How do you know if other teams do more preparation with the QBs? Seems like Mangum was ready.

It depends on what you mean by “compete”. They are not yet an elite team, as is evidenced by the Michigan game. But right now, BYU could still beat roughly half the teams in the P5 Conferences at least 50% of the time. That is an indicator that they can compete. The questions is, can they consistently win at a higher level than that?

You didn’t understand his comment. He was commenting on the fact that typically speaking when a player goes out with an injury (specifically the qb) that it seems to take a long time for the new player to get up to speed with the position. Mangum did okay because he used the rabbit out of a hat hail mary throws to make it appear that he was ready to take over without any problems. That notion was a thought of the past as he was exposed for being a freshman soon after that. Mangum is really an exception to the typical BYU scenario because he is so skilled. We saw a better example of it when Hoge was called into action… he simply was not ready, at all. That is because the staff doesn’t have the second and third level players ready to step in. It is like they are starting kindergarten… with a finger painting playbook.

I think that is what he was referring to…

Your new professional position wouldn’t be influencing your perspective presently, would it? :wink:

I agree with the Michigan take. They are obviously at a more elite level than some are willing to acknowledge right now… I think that is coaching. I’m not sure BYU is top 25 material with Mangum… they are a good team but certainly not great. A great team doesn’t squeak out wins, particularly at home, on a regular basis.

ECU is a decent team but they got back into the game because BYU is not that great and cannot put teams away. BYU should have been able to run the ball with Hoge at QB as it was late in the game and ECU is not very good at defending the run… but they couldn’t do it. Think about BYU’s wins… two last minute/second hail mary’s, one last drive of the game and one where they were tied going into the 4th quarter. 3 of those wins were at home! and none of them were real convincing…

BYU is limited by their offensive philosophy… conservative and trying to do just enough to win. Unfortunately that puts you in position to lose a lot of the time. BYU is fortunate to be 4-2 right now. I see 8-4 as a very realistic possibility with 9-3 being hopeful and 10-2 being very optimistic. If they get to 10-2 then they have probably earned the right to be a top 25 team but I’m not sure that is a strong possibility.

Did you actually watch the game? Hoge came in with 2 minutes left in the 3rd. So, what do you mean it was late in the game? We did try to run because the play calling was really bad for Hoge. And his passing was not good. Mangum doesn’t get hurt BYU wins going away.

Also, the play calling was actually very good.

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I give a little credit to Anae. The 53 yd TD to Brown was fantastic - a weird late middle draw that worked beautifully.

Also, the fake punt was outstanding.

Lastly, the game wouldn’t have been so close if Brown hadn’t dropped that key 3rd down pass early in the 4th quarter. There were maybe 10 mins left in the game and we were up 10. If he catches it, it’s an easy first down. Then even if we unsuccessfully run and punt, EC gets the ball back with about 7 minutes left instead of 10 mins. Big difference. And it would have helped Hoge’s confidence.

Ask me after the Cincinnati game and I’ll tell you how good we are. I know we are getting better, but you can’t survive injuries, especially BYU. Right now 4 losses looks about right, but even four losses makes us better than 50% of the division one teams, so it’s never about whether we belong, it’s whether we can be one of the elite and that is asking a lot with the restrictions placed on student athletes at BYU. Take a look at most of the elite teams in college football and tell me how many of their athletes would survive at BYU-I’m not really sure but take a guess. I believe we are good, but how good remains to be seen.

I agree with you. While Brown can run when healthy, he fumbles a lot and drops too many passes.

So evil wins out over good? O ye of little faith :wink:
I agree that we are not the team that was going to be after we lost Hill and Williams. But, we should have beat UCLA and be 4-1 right now. Michigan got off to a ruff start but how have they become? Insane!

If Mangum can’t go, that will hurt our chances with Cincy. But, who knows! Maybe Boge will surprise us all!