What we learned from Weber

Rose is certainly working on his WCC rotation. LP3, Childs and Rose. He may play with Davis vs. Childs but this seems to be the team going forward. Davis or Guinn first off the bench. I would have liked to see Dastrup eating up bench time because of his upside but Aytes has earned his time. If you watched the game, Haws, who some on this board have bagged on in recent games hit almost every shot, including his 1st two 3s, to go along with 4 assists in the first half. He is so fun to watch when he goes to the hoop…Haws to Mika, play of the year…I still don’t understand why Haws does not lift weighs, he looks like a bean pole.

Guinn is my choice of BYU’s lockdown-hustle guy. He can defend all bug the biggest forwards but then Childs can defend everyone from 1-5. Loved how he got out and defended Weber’s star so hard that Senglin had to pass the ball. Childs is going to be legend before he is done with BYU.

Mika can’t be stopped no matter what teams throw at him. Fear that he may be gone next year.

Emery made up for a poor shooting night by leading the team in assists.

I saw only one instance of Hero Ball last night when Haws tried a heat check and was benched right after that. The guys are defending better but there is still too many times late in the opponents offense that we totally forget about the guy on the opposite side, wide open for an easy 3, the WCC lives on this and BYU needs to fix it.

BYU is still terrible at hitting an open 3, keep on firing. Davis, still the worse passer I have seen in years and as Childs continues to learn, I see him taking time from Davis, no knock on Davis, who is a life time double-double machine, Childs is just so athletic and a way better defender.

The refs are calling some ticky tack junk out there, leaving Davis and Childs both bewildered. This may be a good thing as we all know how touchy feely the WCC refs are.

Lastly, Frampton…why is he getting minutes over a very good Beo? My suspicion is that Rose sees Frampton as a better defender (how about that charge he took, WOW). Frampton also knows the LP3 game in and out and is would seems that Rose is all in on the LP3, much to some fan’s chagrin.

Great summary! Frampton was a hawk on defense. I agree that he earned his minutes because of his defense. Say goodbye to hero ball. Emery didn’t shoot well but he only took 4 shots from distance. I was listening to SN where Rose said he is moving more to the power game rather than the finesse game. In other words, everything goes through the front court first and fewer shots from distance. Rose said the distance shooting will come as the guards settle in with the new system. We saw the current version of this system last night with the guards probably shooting fewer shots than anytime in the last couple of years. That’s not to say Rose doesn’t want 3pt shooting, he just wants it to be the second option. You can get a 3 pt shot almost anytime so the emphasis will be getting the ball into the post. There will be some adjustment for our guards to get used to this new offense but I think its a good move considering the talent we have in the front court.

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Didn’t really notice that anyone played poorly out side of Emery’s shooting. BYU does not, however, seem to be in sync as a team completely yet. Haws and Mika seem to play pretty well together. Saturday the game against Colorado will show some more where this team is at. I like Dastrup, his enthusiasm and his 250 lbs. Kaufusi should help defensively in a few weeks. They need to figure out another substitution for Emery and Haws-someone who can knock down the 3.

Mika can’t be stopped no matter what teams throw at him. Fear that he may be gone next year.

The NBA talk on Mika that I hear many times - including ESPN, not just you are driving me crazy. Why talk about it? I love his motor on the floor (everywhere) and he looks so mature now than he was in his first year. I remember two years ago after NBA Draft there were fewer USA players from college are being drafted and mostly are from ACC, Kentucky, Kansas, some Gonzaga and a Very Few. NBA are looking more and more over seas and it is sad and sometime last month Utah local news said Utah Jazz are mostly International Players. I also hear many times with you guys including me felt that NBA are saying we are Too Slow White Guys and Too Old which is balony.
Eric Mika is not talking about NBA right now or am I wrong? I am sure he is focusing on his games and as well in school. Maybe he is aiming for Final 4 with his long time teammates - maybe in 2 1/2 years later. Maybe he and his wife want to finish college first and don’t want to worry about playing on Sunday soon.

Just enjoy the next 2 1/2 years for now and maybe they will start clicking when wcc start. I have a bad feeling about facing Gonzaga and SMC but what do we know. Enjoy and Go Cougars!

These guys made a pact way back in HS to make a final 4 so I do hope Mika sticks around. I have talked to 2 NBA coaches and they all say Mika needs to develop a 8-10 footer to be unstoppable in the NBA. I don’t see how he can do at BYU (Rose wants him to play next to the rim) unless Kaufusi plays with him and then we could see some of that. As it is now, Mika has plenty of skills to get a high draft pick.

Not the fans that live in the Utah Valley. I’m sure they are very happy with what is going on. It doesn’t get much better than watching your high school basketball heroes play in the MC now. Of course if the team was 9-0 or 8-1 instead of 6-3 there would be more happy fans, at least the educated ones… but the majority aren’t. Most BYU fans probably didn’t even know that Nielsen was on the team a few years ago or that there are some really good players that aren’t getting time because they didn’t play locally, are “out of shape” (:laughing:) or may not be able to play without taking a shot once in awhile… something the current role players must learn to do.

I honestly thought BYU would look better than they do now but they are so far behind Gonzaga and St. Mary’s it isn’t funny. :scream: In fact, I would not be shocked if they lost several wcc games this season, especially the ones where Mika gets into foul trouble. But it’s okay, they are young and need a few years to learn to play together. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Heh last I saw st Mary’s losing to whom???:slight_smile:

Actually UT Arlington is a pretty good team that has won 7 games in a row, including an 11 point win at Texas. It sounds bad (like BYU losing to Utah Valley University) but they are probably ranked higher than UVU is, I dunno.

I’m not sure it really matters to me that much although I am kind of glad they lost because I don’t think they were worthy of such a high ranking.

Having said that, what did everyone else learn from the Weber St. game? I watched, I’m glad BYU won, but something about the game just didn’t feel right. It felt like an empty win, sort of blah and not that exciting. I am still hopeful that the team will gel and chemistry will improve.

Learned BYU isn’t Gonzaga which I already knew, if comparisons are made-byu probably best team in Utah despite UVU. GONZAGA WOULD have
blown out Weber State. So is the talent just inferior or if it’s not, what does BYU do to get in the game ? WHAT STEPS DO WE TAKE? WHAT STEPS DOES ROSE TAKE. OR IS IT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. All questions that need answered. Should be an interesting question with interesting answers. ANYONE want to coach this tream past Gonzaga?

That is very comforting to know. Thanks… it feels like a warm blanket. I am glad that BYU is probably the best team in Utah. I know Utah beat UVU but that was probably just a fluke, like UVU beating BYU.

I hope there are better things to say about BYU at the end of the season than “probably the best team in Utah”.

I’ve answered this question so many times I don’t know what to say anymore.

The culture needs to change. The reasons guys like Bartley, Chatman and Nielson leave need to change. The entitlement thing needs to change. The minutes for players early in the season need to change. The “I need to shoot soon or create my shot and win this game” idea needs to change. There is no trust in non LP3 players from the coach or LP3 right now, that needs to change. The maturity level needs to change. Chemistry needs to change, confidence needs to change - in all its’ forms.

That is a starting list… what more can I say? Too many people and fans don’t like my ideas or opinions so who am I to say? :pensive:

That’s my job-to comfort you and make you feel all giddy inside, Jim

Burton, I agree. This is the primary reason that I am complaining about Roses’ inability to allow proper in game evaluation of players. Haws lead the team in minutes played against WSU. 37 minutes is doing nothing to develop a guard line. Would it have hurt to play Haws 27 minutes and given Beo 10? I believe nothing but positives would come of it. Many who have watched Beo play think he is that back up who can hit 3 pt shots with consistency. He is a very smart player and will commit far fewer TO’s per min played that either Haws or Emery and get more assists.He is not flashy and doesn’t ever play hero ball. He was a 46 percent shooter from distance in high school. However, Leifson had similar success in HS from distance. There is a big difference in how each of these players gets their shot off. Leifson has less quickness and a lower shot delivery. Beo seems to be lacking only one thing, playing time. Haws and Emery need some competition to excel and make good choices, but the only thing I believe Rose will listen to is losses on the court. We will see if Weber was just bad enough to allow BYU to think that they are getting better on defense and more efficient on offense. My guess is that Colorado will show us that BYU and particularly, Haws and Davis have not improved much on defense and the team chemistry is still below average. We shall see tomorrow.

I listened to an interview with Terry Nashiff today. I felt a lot better about things after listening to him. One thing that set this team back was the injury to Bryant. Bryant was very explosive and could drive the key better than anyone BYU has had in a long while. He will be a key player for BYU when he gets healthy again.

OK I agree that the injury to Bryant set this team back, but you have to move forward anyway, and that means developing one more shooter and the best option is Beo. At least go forward with a 8-9 man rotation with sufficient minutes to determine if Beo is going to going to be the guy. I disagree with a lot of you about Haws. I see more potential upside in Haws than I do Emery once he acclimates himself to the college game. He has tremendous court vision and can get his own shot off in a lot of different ways and probably will break his brother’s career scoring record. He just isn’t there yet. I also see lots of potential in Dastrup which many of you don’t. I like his size and attitude. His stats have been good in limited minutes. As in past years, there will be players that get left out and that’s too bad, but it’s just the nature of sports. I see Shaw as being that guy and if I were him I would probably transfer because I believe he has potential to be a pretty good ball player. It’s tough to coach. I screamed for Bartley to get more minutes when he was here and couldn’t understand Rose not playing him more
and I felt the same about Chatman. Chatman was the best defender on the team last year with decent offensive skills. Anyway, everyone has different takes on things and like most things in life, answers usually lie somewhere in the middle. Right now BYU is not a big dance team and probably won’t be this year so you might as well find out who can play and who needs to go somewhere else.

I agree with you about Haws. Between Haws and Emery, it’s Haws that seems to have the best chemistry with Mika. I like Emery’s game except that his shot selection from distance is suspect at times. We really haven’t seen what Haws can do yet because he’s still adjusting to the college game but we get glimpses now and again that indicate that he can be pretty good.

As for BYU’s post season hopes, the UVU loss was pretty devastating. That loss made most fans throw up their hands in frustration over what was supposed to be a promising season. It’s still early enough in the season that BYU could make a good run but a loss today to Colorado will close the door of opportunity just a little further. If BYU can find a way to win today, there’s still some hope.

I don’t want to be negative about the team nor LP players. I am glad we have every LP guy on the roster and I wish we had two more of them in Jackson and Toolson. They are very good players. People may drop dead on this blog, but I too think Haws has upside greater than Emery. He needs some time and about 10 to 15 lbs of muscle to impact his upside! That is ok. I am willing to give him the time and this next off season to hit the weights. Unless he catches fire on both ends of the court this year, he should play about 20 minutes a game. But, yes higher upside than Emery in all aspects of the game … except defense unless TJ gains a little muscle. I am hesitant to say that this team can’t be a tournament team this year. But, realistically, with the lack of minutes to see what the roster truly holds and the injuries, you are correct. They aren’t going anywhere … except maybe the NIT because of the revenue at the gate that BYU draws for the NIT. The one exception to this observation is if Rose will broaden the bench … he may find magic in chemistry there and if he does, BYU, hitting from inside AND out could win the WCC tourney. That is our only shot at the NCAA’s. Ironically, it is only a possibly if we broaden out the playing time starting now! If we lose a couple more games along the way toward figuring out our players upsides … who cares? The 3 games in the WCC tourney is the only thing we should be aiming at.

Yes, Dastrup has upside. He has to get in shape though. I suspect that come January he will be good enough to go with more minutes. Problem is Corbin’s return will be at the same time, but Dastrup needs to play some before he is in perfect shape. On another note, I am super excited to get an unheralded player back from his mission for next season. Ryan Andrus is going to be a very good player at BYU. Maybe he will need to red-shirt, but he is the true center we have been looking for if he doesn’t come back way out of shape. He just stated to come into his own at the of the 2015 season. He has a NBA type body and is a true 7 fter. He will be a nice addition to Mika.

Beo, Leifson, Guinn, Aytes to some extent, and of course Dastrup all need to have minutes and we should be able to do that given the pretty obvious conclusion that this year will be built around letting kids grow up and hopefully get a fair shot at court time to prove themselves OR not. This year is not going to be built around getting into the NCAA’s. We can lose by 10 or 12 to GU or we can play a deeper bench and lose by 20. It doesn’t matter. What may matter is that we stumble upon a player or two or a combination or two that Rose hadn’t thought about. My guess is that will happen. LJ Rose is a one and done player and he can’t be allowed to suck up minutes from developing players if we can’t make the NCAA’s. Again, I think politics may have gotten Rose to BYU and promises were made about playing time that shouldn’t have been. Who would care if LJ was given 25 min and Beo was given 10? Anyway, a deeper bench will give more competition for everyone and that is a positive. We should not be afraid of that and good players shouldn’t be either. It will give the coaches a real look at in game pressure situations and the kids will have to react correctly. This will also give coaches a better shot at letting the correct players have their walking papers at seasons end rather than just a gut feeling based on practices … a la Bartley, Nelson, Calvert, Toolson and Chatman.

So, I would be comfortable playing the whole bench and allow them to weed themselves out based on performance on the floor. Realize that that this isn’t HS, every player on the team was offered a scholarship (almost) which means that Rose thought they could play at this level. So let them!

I don’t want to mislead anyone-I think Emery is a very good player and possibly a great player, but I think the benchmark for a great guard is doing all the things Emery does except shooting percentage and having a good points to assist ratio. In my mind a guard either point or off guard needs to shoot 45-46% and he is well below that. I know from a scoring aspect, lots of high scoring guards shoot 41-42%, but like Iverson, their team suffers.

Glen and Fish, don’t go over board on Frampton. He played 4 minutes and received 2 fouls. He did a great job on drawing the charge. But, if he hadn’t gotten the call he would have had 3 fouls in 4 minutes. He will either last 6 minutes or 10 minutes based on his fouling, before he fouls out of a game. I am for him receiving more minutes to see what he can do on offense, but BYU has to find players who can both score and play defense. Limiting TO’s would be nice also. We can’t just find defensive players or just offensive players and win against good teams.

I agree with your assessment. At some point you are going to have to see who can carry their share of the load. I wouldn’t concentrate on those that are leaving on missions next year. Their time is 3 years down the road and you should at least be able to assess their potential in practice and what ever limited game minutes they get. The only exception to that is if BYU starts winning the games that will get them in the dance-then it becomes more complicated. We will see what happens tonight. Colorado at this point is a tournament team and you have to win this game and not lose to Illinois, who isn’t a tournament team at this juncture.