Absolutely the worst team to be a fan of

Football
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I think I may have reached my breaking point after today. Before the teams took the field I was sure BYU would lose by4 or 5 touchdowns at a minimum. I wasn’t just basing this on the popular “this team played that team and the score was this, so this team should do that”. I was basing my thoughts on the fact that BYU has not even looked like a real football team for several weeks now and has refused to compete by simply walking on to the field and rolling over. Oklahoma had been the complete opposite the last several games, literally steam rolling their last several opponents. The fact that both teams had played the same teams recently only made the outcome more obvious.

But then today happened. The weather was not good. Retzlaff looked like a real QB. The offensive line finally figured out how to run block and the defense was playing inspired football. Who was that team that was facing Oklahoma today? It didn’t look like any BYU team I had watched recently.

Everything was looking great. The offense had rhythm, the run game was working, the QB was hitting his targets and the game was tied 14-14 and then it happened.

Our offensive coordinator couldn’t get out of his own way. He couldn’t see how the game was going and what was working and stick to a game plan. He had to do what he always does… cause the team to self implode by reaching into his bag of trickery and deception and throw the game away. I couldn’t believe the play action fake handoff and potential flip toss on the end around. Why? We had just gotten a great punt return into OU territory and had all the momentum and he killed it with a gadget play call. Then, just to one up that play he calls a double throw back pass whingamadinger that takes BYU back 15 yards when they were driving with momentum at the end of the half. More trickery gone bad but at least a field goal was salvaged for a halftime tie.

Then came the most absolutely WORST call in the history of football. Four straight run plays that go for what, close to 50 yards and BYU has the ball 1st and goal at the 2 yard line and what is the play call? A pass? Are you kidding me? What coach in the entire football world, let alone D-1 college ball calls that play? Everything was working, you have 4 plays to make 2 yards RUNNING the football after you had just gained 50 yards on 4 RUNNING plays and you choose to throw a long one out in a place where it had no business going? I went ballistic! I said to my 85 year old dad. "How can they call that play? I can’t believe they actually did that! They are trying to lose on purpose! This is worse than getting curb stomped the last few weeks! Why are they doing this?

I contemplated the next half an hour wondering if I had ever witnessed more horrible and untimely play calling in my life. I thought how can a D-1 coach make such bone headed play calls? This isn’t real. It didn’t really happen… but it did. BYU literally threw away a game that Oklahoma was handing to them on a silver platter. It was like the coaches were saying "we appreciate your kindness and generosity Sooners but this is who we are… we don’t like winning and the fact that you have given us many opportunities is great but it isn’t in our nature to try and win games… we roll over or we say no thank you to the possibility of winning.

Absolutely the worst team in BYU history to be a fan of and I have been a fan for 50 years at least.

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Well, watch some basketball. Although they aren’t doing great.
So, I’ll explain the play. It was a triple option. Hand off, run yourself or pass the ball. Should have been a handoff and Retzlaff said the same thing after the game. The pass was not a wide pass to the sideline. That was part of the mistake for the pass. Epps should have gone to the empty space and the throw to the outside shoulder. Epps also didn’t go after the defender either. He might have been fast enough. Just not played as it was drawn up.
We’ve had worse seasons against lesser opponents.

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Sitake finally seemed to have a sense of urgency and desperation. Even though he has years of extensions left in his contract, it seems like it finally dawned on him that the shine is off of his apple for most fans now. He won’t be fired before his contract is up, but I think he knows that they are looking for someone else. There won’t be any more extensions.

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How do you know they are looking for someone else?

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I Listened to the ESPN Announcers in that game.

  1. It was brought up that ARod had to simplify the blocking schemes for this group of lineman. The previous scheme was complex and needed timing. Why It took Arod and Funk 8 games to figure that out is another question.
  2. Although Ratzlaff threw that pic 6, it is not entirely his fault. The WR allowed the DB to get in front of him and what’s worse is he just “Stood there”. Matich brought this up with one of Slovis’s pic 6 play, I think it the TCU game. Some of our WR’s do not fight for the ball. The addition of Robbins finally being 100% healthy also added to the ability to run the ball.
  3. WR’s like Epps and Roberts were not catching the ball that was thrown to them. What’s up with that?
  4. BYU turf absolutely sucks, slipping and sliding all over the place. I do not remember a time that it was this bad. Good thing it is being replaced next year.

Bottom line, like you said ARod can’t get out of his own way. It appears to me that he has no “Feel” for the game, maybe that is because he is up in the booth. Jay Hill once said that he needed to look the guys in the eyes to get a feel for what is working and what is not.

You know my stance on ARod and Funk, this game has not changed that opinion.

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I didn’t know you have opinions. I thought anything you post is doctrine :grin:

As soon as the pick happened, Epps should have taken off after him. He would have the speed to have caught him. As far as the pick, the ball was thrown to the wrong side and Epps should have been running to the sideline that was left open.

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reflection allows the coaches to examine how they lost that game. We as fans are disgusted with “snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory”. But I want to cover what Hans Olsen said in the post game.

So here is what Hans had to say and I agree with him 100%:
The play was QB choice, he could hand off to Robbins or option the run or throw to, in this case, Epps. 1st of all, NO WAY do you give a rookie QB that option (per Hans) because they will go with their instincts of being, duh, a QB. That is ALL on AROD. Don’t give Ratzlaff that responsibility. period.

Robbins was robbed of a lifetime memory, a TD, beating OK and becoming bowl eligible. He was on fire.

Our QB is 3 games into his career and he shows it, playing excellent football at times and either trying too much or just not enough time with receivers but take away costly turnovers and IF we can keep these Running Backs together, BYU will be fine next year…

BYU football loses turnover battle with Oklahoma - Deseret News

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JCoug shoots….AND HE SCORES!
The 3 play calls he mentioned were catastrophic failures. AS JCoug said, we lucked out with a 50 yard FG after the INSANE triple pass. The other two plays created a 21 point swing in the game.

I have never in my life, ever, EVER seen worse play calls. And I saw 3 in one game. And guess what they all had in common: silly, sophomoric, completely unnecessary trick plays—ARod trying to be cute. And as a fan and as a former head coach I will not listen to anyone with this ridiculous “it was an RPO and the QB did the wrong thing.” Why? Because 1) Chris is right, the OC should NEVER EVER allow that choice to be on the table in that situation, and 2) Kalani is the one who said that, and that is Kalani straight throwing his QB under the bus to protect his OC. WHAT HEAD COACH THROWS HIS QB INDER THE BUS when it’s the OC’s fault? Spineless. Terrible. The whole thing is disgusting.

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Well, actually, Ratzlaff himself after the game said he should have handed it off and there would be no issue.

I also take some issue with the idea that at this level a backup QB should be ready to step in and not miss a beat. Like the teams we played this year. This was his 3rd game, not his first. He saw the DB first playing way back and did not see the DB run up as the ball was hiked. His mistake was throwing the ball on Epp’s left side instead of right side. Epps didn’t react right either. Had Epps ran after the DB he would have caught him way before the end zone.
Now, should that have been the the play? No.

Now, you keep mentioning you are a football coach. As I remember, that was peewee football. I don’t think that qualifies as authoritive for P5 football. Too many armchair quarterbacks and coaches in BYU football land. We need more simple fans rather than those tryouts get people fired.

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Agree with Larimer. That is why I posted what I posted because anyone with the most basic understanding of football just doesn’t do those things in those situations. All 3 of those play calls and subsequent massive failures that cost BYU the game are on the OC and HC. I am right in line with the exact reasons Larimer gave for why that should never happen.

It wasn’t just a minor mishap that just didn’t work out, it was a gross error in judgement that should have been an easy decision. I’ve been an observer of many sports over the years, football being one of the top two or three. I know I have a very good understanding of the game and how it is played and should be played. I know when I see stupid and I saw 3 horrible plays/calls that absolutely lost the game.

I was getting over it until I saw grasshopper at stake priesthood meeting tonight and he reminded me of the plays… thanks Hopper.

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Hmmmm……I guess because I didn’t coach D1 I’m not very smart, but I’ll dumb it down so other uneducated football guys like me can follow, but in fairness to those of us who are slow in the uptake, this was maybe the most obvious set of circumstances in the history of organized football:

  1. You just gashed the D for 60 yards on the ground. Gashed. And easily with NO resistance.
  2. It’s first and goal on the 2.
  3. Call a da&& run play. No rpo option. No fake handoff to a slow TE on slippery turf who has no carries all year, no double reverse, and for all that’s holy, no pass.
    TD BYU.
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I’m telling ya, there is something about game management and time management that football coaches never quite get. Basketball coaches have a far greater understanding of these areas of coaching. Including for peewee leagues. With that said, football teams should have one basketball coach on the sideline for these issues. The right plays and time outs will be better managed :grin:

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what did I just write??? did I studder?
A rookie should never be making the choice. duh

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The fact that BYU coaches seemed to realize that they are on the hot seat resulted in better than the usual coaching job at the Y. However even though the offensive coaches managed to put lipstick on the pig it is still a pig! They aren’t smart and they aren’t capable! The fact that we are all relieved that it wasn’t a 40 pt embarrassment makes some overlook the obvious and horrendous play calling. 4 plays resulted in 55 rushing yards and we only had 2 more yards to cover so let’s just show the nation how balanced we can be with a new quarterback who isn’t a decision maker yet. ARod please leave the program.

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Why Not?

Everyone acts as if Retzlaff is this fresh out of high school kid that don’t know anything.

Retzlaff passed for almost 8000 yards, 44 touchdowns, and completed 63% of his 493 passing attempts on the JUCO level. (Riverside college and Golden West College)

He led RCC to the California Community College championship game against San Mateo.

The kid knows how to be a QB, and like any good QB he took the hit for the bad decision.

I will be honest, I have listened to Hans Olsen over the years, and frankly I do put much stock into what he says. He has been wrong about things more times than he is right.

I still believe that a lot of the fault is on Epps, he does not come to the ball, he allows the DB to get in front of him. And what makes it worse, This happened at least twice where the DB goes in for the Pic 6.

Fish, don’t you know some former WR’s, ask them to review that play and see if what I am saying is not accurate. Matich brought it on Sports nation

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I also hear Epps made no pursuit after the interception either. At least Retzlaff got after the defender–and actually caught him, but too late.

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I was mistaken the previous pick 6 was because Michah Harper never fought for the ball and did the same things as Epps after the pick, just stood there.

Here is the link where Matich talks about (around 31:59 mark)
Watch BYU Sports Nation 2023 Episode 223: Iowa State Takeaways with Trevor Matich (11-13-23) - BYUtv

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The voice of reason. Can’t believe I’m saying this. Fish is obviously knowledgeable in basketball. But he and others get sucked into something that is going on by Thawk and others who want Sitaki out and their buddy in. Who that is I don’t know. But this is more than just bad play calling with him and a couple others. Something else is going on.

Now, to the play. You are correct about Ratzlaff. Although, there’s a big difference between JC and D1 ball. Epps should have been more aggressive to the ball. However, I’m sure he thought the ball would be thrown to his right. He was leaning that way. Then, Epps should have gone after him. He’s a lot faster than Retzlaff who almost caught him. Something else happened that isn’t mentioned. Watch the DB. He jumps this play hard, fast and without hesitation from deep in the end zone. How did he know where Retzlaff was going to throw it and not hand it off to Robbins? How did he also know Retzlaff was going to throw it to the inside and not outside shoulder of Epps?
My thought about this is we’ve run this okay before and the DB watched a lot of film. Don’t we over pass when inside the 5 this year? Retzlaff also may have tipped off the DB with some signal he gave to Epps.

I know Jim and others will still think he’s a rookie and should never have had that option. But you may be right. He’s not a rookie. It was his 3rd game as well. Aside from that, there are many other times we have been scratching our heads about play calls over the last couple of years to realize a new OC is needed. The play in this game should not have had a pass option in it. Just runs by Robbins or LJ or Retzlaff. Not because Retzlaff is a rookie. But because it was 1st and 2 yards for a touchdown and we had been running well. Even inside the red zone against Oklahoma. The loss is on the coaches.

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Two things:
Matich covers many teams, he is Not that close to BYU as say a Hans Olsen is, who covers one team

Secondly: I did talk to some of my insiders. Too a man, they all said, "Should of never taken the risk, not on a 1st down and with the way we were stomping on them with the running game. Robbins got ROBBED of a TD he deserved and a win for BYU.

Even OU’s Coach Venable said very clearly, “We were not putting BYU away early so we had to play clean ball”. The 3 turnovers from BYU resulting in 21 points was the difference in the game.

Sitake and Co out played OU on both sides of the ball but ARod and co. got cute and lost the game and a bowl invite.

as JCoug says, Absolutely the worst team to be a fan of

Fishing has been very good this fall, caught maybe 1/2 of this S__T Show. Never bothered to watch any of the blow outs. Feel free to call me a fair weather fan but I will say this, If Sitake and Co. don’t bother to show up. I won’t bother to watch.

I had a father who, if I did not get a chore done, he got me up at 4 am in the morning the next day, did not matter if it was snowing or raining. Did my father love getting up a 4 am or did he love torturing his boys? Nope. He taught us to not only get the job done but to have pride in doing it right. True self-worth comes from accomplishments, knowing that you up for anything that comes your way. Does any of this resonate with BYU football right now?

We were dead last in the country at the rushing game for a good part of this season…what does it take to be last at anything?

One reason why I love our BBall team right now is because of the leadership and our core. These guys of Spenc Johnson, Foos, Richie, Hall, Robinson are DOGS, they will fight for every scrap. Dawson and Khalifa could be Dogs, we just don’t know yet.

But that is a different thread

go cougs, get one in OK next week, prove us wrong.

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Diagree. Don’t give any quarterback that option. Not slovis not Steve young not detmer
(Ok, macmahon would have done what ever he wanted to)
Totally a coaching mistake. Nothing to critic Retzlaff or receivers for if right call made.