After game thoughts

Basketball
22

Not done this season?

If they fall short and get a NIT bid then I agree, they are not done and could make a nice run.

If they make the ncaa tournament they are one and done. How do I know this? Because they are perennial head cases when it comes to the big stage. The win at Gonzaga was a fluke because the conference made sure the game was called to their advantage. What we saw in the conference tourney final is what BYU will get in the ncaa tournament… not a lot of love or advantageous officiating suited to their style of play.

I love my Cougars but I have seen this way too many times over the course of many years and when I look at this team, I see inexperience and head cases coming together in a mix of bad medicine. That is a tough pill to swallow.

They won’t be playing Portland or LMU in the ncaa tourney… I see Haws being able to make noise because he is a scoring machine and I see KC the same way because he is a competitor. Halford may chip in some because he is tenacious, but Kaufusi is too inexperienced and the rest of the team will play like deer in the headlights.

I know some of you may not like to hear this but you know it’s true.

23

I keep thinking about the Maui overtime games. How close BYU was to winning with far less experience and far less confidence. Granted, Austin was playing but the team overall was developing. A bunch of individual players then. Now they are playing more confidently and they know their roles as a team. Kafusi has developed exponentially.

That all said, I think they can do some damage IF they don’t draw Kentucky and IF they maintain their confidence. Many teams don’t know BYU and could take them lightly. But then, as you say, we have all seen the deer in the headlights more often than not. I have a feeling that changes. (Full disclosure. I also said six weeks ago there was no way BYU goes to the Big Dance, only NIT.)

Do you know anything about Winder’s status? Is he a possibility or is the injury too severe?

24

I’m more inclined to go with JH on one and done, but then it all depends on the draw if we make the NCAA. Big athletic front court is going to be hard to contend with. Even if Winder is back, he will only be about 65-70% because that’s what he has been since the injury. I like the “deer in the headlights” analogy and look forward in basketball and football when we can get back to being the one with the “attitude”. I’m not sure whether the NCAA’s would be a blessing or a curse. One and done or probably seeing BYU for another 3 games in the NIT. I know most of you would say the NCAA’s and from a status position you are probably right, but I do enjoy watching BYU all I can. As far as officiating goes-it is what it is and probably won’t ever change so until we move on to another conference with more professional refs, I’m not going to stress over them or try not to:)

25

Agree with you this time
Thought D pushed back much better in Spokane
Refs weren’t great but there is no question that gonzaga was the better team in this game and outplayed us. When we have Winder out and Fisher and Bartley playing really poorly, we at best end up with three on five when Kafusi or Halford is in - worse if it’s Worthington or Nielsen.

If some of the new guys are as good as advertised, and Austin actually gets another year, and Kyle is still around, next year could be much better - but that won’t help this year.

26

You call what you are talking about a fan? LOL!!! So, a fan is when the refs allow BYU to win. But if BYU loses, then it’s the refs fault and those that pass blame to the refs are the only fans. Right…

So, what the refs are suppose to be able to do is see all 10 players at the same time, process every nanosecond of all 10 players, their positioning on the court, time in the key and 20 arms and hands at all times. With that, listen to coaches and fans screaming. It’s like I said before, there is simply too much for the refs to follow. line of sight and vision will always be a problem. Concentration and other issues refs may have as people. Now, you want them to watch the clock and take their eyes off the players too? Funny…Too funny!!! They aren’t robots! The pushing and shoving was happening by both teams. And, we had players in for more than 3 seconds that weren’t being called too. I can guarantee you that with all the things they are to watch for, 3 seconds is way down on the list of a seasoned college or pro referee. Now, for a junior high school girls referee like yourself, that’s about all you can see on the floor :wink:

27

nonsense… if you watch what the officials are watching, most of the time they have their eyes glued to wherever the play is and the basketball.

Of course that is not what I am saying about refs… good when BYU wins and at fault when they lose. That is your misguided perception based on your inability to comprehend what anyone else writes.

That is okay though, I’ve gotten used to it.

Once again, like most every other discussion we have, I can see this going nowhere.

I’m done.

28

Yes Frank, GU played a better game this time around but regardless, you and I (along with many others) both know that there wasn’t a chance in the world BYU would win this game. Did you read Tom’s posts? What is your take on what he said?

That is the reason the officiating, for a 5 minute stretch mind you, was so bothersome. That is why Rose was so irate. That is why he got the technical. He couldn’t take the obvious favoritism being given. If you try to understand that, independently of the fact that GU played a better game, it can help you understand better where I am coming from.

Did GU need that extra help? More than likely not, but they got it anyway. That is the thing that bothers me because by getting it, the fact that they were going to win the game regardless of how well BYU played, the integrity of the game was put into question. It didn’t have to be that way.

A little ironic that GU shot the most free throws that have been given to the opponent in any of BYU’s game this season. I could go on and on and I won’t respond to SG, so you decide if what I am saying is worth replying to.

29

Jim
I do agree with the ref bias in this game. I didn’t like it but like you expected it

Rose was pretty ticked and that particular out of bounds call was a real bad call and set him off for good.

Nonetheless, I thought we got outplayed. Even with a bit of help from the refs you just don’t let anyone back you down like that time after time. He was getting real low position even before the entry pass without any real resistance. You can’t play that kind of D time and time again and expect to win.

30

I’m not saying that the reason Gonzaga won the game was because of referee bias.

What I am saying is that it didn’t need to be part of the game because it compromises the integrity of their win. When you have such a bad stretch of officiating it isn’t just accidental. Accidental is when it happens to both teams, not just one.

Gonzaga was good enough to win but the officials helped them along the way because that is what the conference wanted. It’s all about the money and anyone who thinks differently doesn’t understand how the system works.

31

So if BYU is left out of the NCAA tournament and the WCC only gets one team in, will you shut up about this already?

And if the WCC was on the take, they wouldn’t want Gonzaga to win the tournament each year, they would want anyone else to as the Zags are already in the dance, everyone else is a bubble team at best. Gotta maximize the odds to get as many in as possible, for the $$ right??? See how stupid this sounds?

32

I disagree KC but I may still be wrong. I would want to get a second team in but would not care how high they were ranked. I would DEFINITELY want my #1 team to be as high as possible to give them the best chances to go as far as possible. Two teams in the first round with one moving to the second round pays well I would guess, but I would also guess two teams making it in and one team going to the elite eight or final four would be much more money. I would guess it wouldbe more money and recognition for the conference to have one team go deep into the tourney than to have two teams not win more than one game.

33

"So if BYU is left out of the NCAA tournament and the WCC only gets one team in, will you shut up about this already?

And if the WCC was on the take, they wouldn’t want Gonzaga to win the tournament each year, they would want anyone else to as the Zags are already in the dance, everyone else is a bubble team at best. Gotta maximize the odds to get as many in as possible, for the $$ right??? See how stupid this sounds?"

Geeez KC… did you read Larimer’s post? Do you understand, even a little, how it all works? Have you been spending time with Gavenman lately? Do you have the comprehension issue disease? Do you just gloss over what I write or do you spend some time thinking about it?

Ok… so here we go again. Try to read with comprehension and understand.

Gonzaga is the PROGRAM of the wcc. WIthout them, the conference would be just another league, like the Patriot or Horizon or some of those other obscure, unknowns that get one 15 or 16 seed into the tournament every year. They are usually ranked nationally, top 20 and frequently top 10. They are nationally recognized as a premier team and program. Now here is the kicker… no team has dominated their league like GU has. Go ahead and check it out. Look at every other perennial top 20 program in the country and nobody comes close. It’s fact.

The how of those facts is not nearly as significant as the why. We know how they do it… well coached, talented, etc. but remember, no team has maintained the stranglehold on their conference championship like Gonzaga has on theirs. There are reasons that go beyond coaching and talent, there are lots of well coached and talented teams in the nation that don’t and can’t do it.

It’s all about the money and Gonzaga brings LOTS of money to the conference. That is why GU gets the love and the help they need. There is a lot of incentive to keep them highly ranked. Kind of ironic how the end of the season unfolded. The Zags losing to BYU at home didn’t move them from a #2 seed but it helped BYU get off the bubble. Maybe not enough to get them in but at the time it was the best they could do. But if BYU had beaten GU in the wcc final it would have dropped GU way down and not really done that much for BYU. The conference did the best they could considering the timing and circumstances. The deeper GU can go in the ncaa tournament, the more money and notoriety they bring to the conference. The higher their ranking the better their chances.

You were on the right track, you just ran out of gas halfway there.

Now… see how stupid your post sounds?

And just now seeing that the voice of reason, Jason Case, has weighed in and helps explain it as well. Not sure I did that completely but I know I have been completely clear on many of these posts in the past and SG Never gets it, so if you don’t either, then there isn’t much more I can say…

.

34

Exactly Jason !!!

That is why Gonzaga gets all the help they need to stay as highly ranked as possible. How many conference games did they lose this year?

One.

And who was it to?

BYU.

BYU was the only legitimate chance for another ncaa tournament berth at the time they played each other, the last game of the season. Do you think the fact that those two teams played each other the last game of the season was coincidence?

I saw GU play Santa Clara in the wcc tourney last season and they absolutely had the win given to them by the refs. SC may have been upset about what happened, just like Rose was when he saw what was going on in the wcc final but they ultimately realize where the money is coming from and who is generating it and they succumb just like a pretty girl and her sugar daddy.

You get it, Tom Larimer gets it, I get it and there are some others who “get it”. Unfortunately there are those who don’t… oh well.

35

So now we are just Gonzagas little brother, gotcha.

36

Yes we are the Zags little brother and don’t forget they are the DARLING to this wcc league!

37

Uh-how many straight WCC championships in a row have they won. BYU had numerous opportunities to take control of the game and either threw up a poor shot or threw the ball away. How many players on BYU
's team had a sub-par game? I don’t even remember one starter that shot 50% from the field. Like-wise every Gonzaga starter shot over 50%. Yeh stats don’t tell the whole story Yeh Gonzanga gets the advantage of the calls in critical situations. I remember one ref, not to be named, looked like he would rather choke on his whistle than call a foul on Gonzaga. It is what it is and the only way to change it, is to step up and start recruiting better and slamming the ball down their throat. I’m sure the rest of the teams in the conference are just as frustrated, but the only way to cure the problem is get out of the conference or start winning or else it just remains the same old drill. BYU has a chance to do exactly that in the next few years. I still remember the Jordan Rules-it’s not really a novel concept. If basketball becomes like professional wrestling I’ll not waste my time watching it, but until then, winning takes care of a lot of problems.

38

It has less to do with officiating and more to do with they are a quality program with a very good team this year.

39

and what about last year?

I suppose we can change the % effect that officiating has on their success in the conference every year. This year it wasn’t as influential as say… last year. You are probably right, how good they are year to year influences how much help they get from the officials. Last year they needed more help to win the conference, this year not as much. I suppose I can agree with you on that.

Doesn’t really matter though because it is always responsible for some part of their success every year.

The interesting thing is that I watch a team like Kentucky or Kansas or some other “quality program” playing a game and I don’t see them get the calls and the favors like Gonzaga does. When the officials are in your back pocket, it makes the task of winning your conference and going to the ncaa tournament a whole lot easier.

40

Please stop, you are more intelligent than your posts suggest.

41

It’s funny reading these posts:) I was watching the Duke vs Notre Dame game last night. Being a Duke fan I wasn’t too happy with the way it was going. The officials started making horrible calls against Notre Dame, which the replays clearly showed were terrible calls. I was thinking how typical these type of things were in sports and how many teams that have come to Provo and left feeling like they got hosed by the refs. Now Duke, the number 2 team in the country is not even making the championship game and you know what-they don’t deserved it-they got out played out hustled and Notre Dame is in the finals despite the officiating. This happened in probably the most elite bb conference in the country and it wasn’t just my perception in was the perception of the number one broadcasting team in college basketball. Notre Dame stepped it up and they deserve where they ended up. Bottom line-teams get hosed all the time. Imperfect sport-imperfect humans=reality