The way they played today, no, I don’t see them making a run in the NIT. But, like Grasshopper (Scott), I would have hope of a run if Austin were to play and play at full strength, if Winder were able to play at full strength, and if there were no more injuries or flu bugs. A lot of if’s…
We allowed 13 offensive boards to a cellar dweller, after allowing 17 to STM. We also allowed 5 uncontested dunks in half court in the 2nd half. Embarrassing lack of any play in the paint on our end of the court. It also hurt that with 5 minutes to go in the game we had attempted 3 free throws. haws was held and bumped nearly every possession but tonight it was not a foul. In the games that the WCC refs decide before the game that holding off the ball on Haws is not a foul, we lose. Fischer’s “intentional” foul was after he too had been held in the neck area coming around a screen with no call. Our guys all looked frustrated. But no good team allows that many offensive boards and dunks in half court. Last year Mika and Austin never allowed that kind of stuff. We are just not very good this year. Period.
Nurnst: Like you said, a lot of ifs.
It’s been a while since BYU had a mediocre season. I guess this is what it feels like. Well, as someone said somewhere on this puzzling board, …(paraphrase) “sit back and enjoy watching Haws make his run and enjoy Winder and whoever else plays well on a given night.” In my days at BYU our men’s team was always in contention. Even when we took second in the old WAC, we won the NIT in 66’. I doubt anything like that will happen with this team. Golly this board is really good at making us correct spelling errors. I guess Big Brother is always watching. I can’t stand this strung out format.
It says a lot of a team when the two best players in the SDU game were Halford and Nixon.
These guys did not run out of gas…they just did not give a crap, hucking up balls like they didn’t care, no bother to make a pass and get a open look.
They just don’t care. I did not see one leader (Haws, Winder or KC) say a single word at any point. Something is very wrong here and it may be that they are willing to lose to prove a point to the coaches.
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chris - what point would they be trying to prove?
I watched the final shot attempt by KC and am baffled at why he didn’t use the backboard in that situation. It was an open look layup for crying out loud! If he goes glass on that one it is almost a sure make.
This team is really maddening… no sense of purpose, no rhythm, etc. and apparently no leadership. There has to be somebody on the floor who keeps it together.
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Its not like Rose does not have the talent inside…This team is bad because not one person has developed. We already had Winder, KC and Haws as well as Halford. Fischer was anointed the Carlino replacement. I know for a fact that anyone of us could of been the coach of this team and had the same or better record. I know that is a lot to say but I can’t help but say that if Coach Few had this motley crew, he would have sat the leaders early on and worked the newbies to the point that they at least knew game speed, they’re role on defense like parking your butt into their best rebounder, a simple pic and role play and at least one go to under the basket move.
Few would have had our big babies ready to contribute.
As an example…the last play of the game, KC goes all the way in for a layup to tie the game, Nixon just watches from 15 feet away and then stands there while the clock runs for another 2 seconds before Haws runs in to foul the rebounder. A Few coached team would have Nixon following in for a rebound on the opposite side and fouling immediately if the other team gets the rebound. This is basic stuff here
I am glad you asked, Jim.
You and I have pointed out the obvious all year. “Why are the bigs lost out there and lacking fundamentals at this point in the year”.
It is almost as if our starters are trying to lose on purpose, sounds crazy. Here is what I saw in the SDU game. The substitutions were so bad (Taking KC and Haws out at the same time while having Neilson in there) No KC or Kaufusi in there to rebound so you have Winder, Fischer, Harford, Neilson and Nixon in there so where does a rebound come from??? SDU gets 11 offensive boards. They don’t have athletes on that team, they are slower whiter guys (you get the jest) but they know the basics
They’re coach takes Dee out at strategic times, he is rested. Rose doesn’t sub when we have the lead and when we lose it, Haws presses his shots, he gets anxious, sure he makes some ridiculous shots but many are not needed, very early in the possession all the while SDU is on the other end getting uncontested layups or dunks because of the head scratching substitutions.Winder lost his man when they went to Man Coverage and he did not get the memo…KC lost his guy 3 times…3 dunks, that never happens. The only guy showing motivation and yelling out assignments is Halford, the others are sleep walking.
It is almost as if, “If the coach does not care, then I don’t care”. There is a lot more I could say but you get the jest.
I agree that we played poorly, and the biggest reason we lost was the poor shooting from the 3 point line (3 of 15). We went cold, cold, cold. That was particularly apparent in the second half.
Given that, how can we not get off the ref thing. They are bad, bad, bad. What irks me more, is that they call BYU on nearly every close call, but not with the other team. I thought the flagrant foul of Fischer was a bad call. The SD guy came over and bumped into him as he tried to go by, and started using his hands on him. Fischer slapped at the guys arms to get away. A foul, yes. Flagrant, no.
Russ, you are alluding to what I said and have been saying for a long time. There is always one way the game is called for BYU and a different, more forgiving way it is called for their opponent.
It’s called the double standard. It has always been there and will continue to be there because of the standard that BYU has for itself… the honor code, the personal conduct code and every other standard that you can think of. BYU holds itself to a higher standard and so do the officials. The problem is that the refs can’t seem to sort out the difference between the honor code and a basketball game.
“It is almost as if, “If the coach does not care, then I don’t care”. There is a lot more I could say but you get the jest.”
That is a fairly strong and thought out accusation and perception. I didn’t see the game so I don’t know myself. I’m not sure what to say.
It would be nice to know what goes on in practice, whether Rose has the respect of the players and if they believe in him. Also, what kind of chemistry is there. It is hard to determine where this team is, though they seem stagnant and not playing with a lot of purpose.
The Pepperdine loss was a bad one…
A couple of game seemed that they wasn’t much of a bias, but the last two have been bad.
Obviously with this team, if they don’t shoot well they are going to struggle-given they have no inside presence. We have rehashed BYU’s weaknesses for weeks now and that isn’t going to change unless the makeup of the team changes which would be Austin coming back. I hope they turn things around, but at this point any loss is not going to surprise me. Nothing will change in regards to the officiating-they simply aren’t that good in the WCC (solely my opinion based upon observation) trying to be unbiased. Maybe it’s time to start giving more playing time to players who need the development for next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bartley didn’t transfer out next year-for whatever reason- I feel he deserved more playing time because he offers a good deal of athletic talent and physical strength on a team that is lacking in that regard, but then I don’t have the awareness of what goes on in practices. Maybe some of you closer to the source knows that story. It’s fairly unusual that everyone who has been posting is pretty right on regarding their observations-but even a blind man could see the problems. As far as the conference tournament goes-BYU is capable of beating anyone on a given night-but can they win three in a row-not at this point. From a fan’s perspective-many of us just like to see the team play-no matter what venue-for others it’s the dance of nothing-I can guarantee you one thing though-for the juniors, sophs, and freshmen-every game they play they are better prepared for next year!
There is ALWAYS a bias… the only unknown factor is how bad it will be from game to game. The fouls are always called more closely against BYU. Haws gets mugged literally every game. The BYU big men always get into foul trouble because their contact on defense is more of a foul than other teams defensive contact. The same exact defensive positioning is a foul on BYU and a non-foul on their opponent.
Those same fouls simply aren’t called on teams like Gonzaga or St. Mary’s. Somebody try and convince me that Waldo wasn’t allowed to do whatever he wanted on both ends of the court vs. BYU. I’ve seen Nielson literally stand there with his hands straight up and get called for a foul… on many occasions.
If BYU is good enough to overcome that kind of officiating and their opponent is not playing well they win. If they don’t overcome it or their opponent is playing well or both, they lose. They aren’t playing well enough and consistently enough this season to overcome anything, most importantly their own bad play, but I maintain that even if they were, they would not be given a fair and equal opportunity to win the league.
It’s called the Jimmer factor and it happened the year before they moved into the wcc when he single handedly destroyed Gonzaga in the ncaa tourney. BYU will not win the wcc basketball title… even if they are clearly the best team in the league… not this year, not next year and not any year, LP boys together or not, etc.
Mark it down.
I said “wasn’t much of a bias”, but now you’re using Gaveman terms about things like “the customer is ALWAYS right”. I am reminded of the old adage “Always and Never statements are always false and never true.” 
I agree with everything else you’ve said.
Would you trust a BYU team in the WCC? Everyone knows we will leave the second someone offers…just saying.
As for Haws claiming we will turn this thing around…where was the urgency when they were hucking up prayers every chance they got. I watch our guys and then turn the channel and watch a big 10 or 12 game and we truly look like a team without a clue. We have 3 or 4 guys on the floor at any given moment who have been with Rose for 4 years and there just is too few possessions with purpose. The ol dribble down and screen for Haws to take a jumper was there for the last 3 years. Everyone knows it and they know that all they have to do is defend 8-10 seconds and then they get the ball back.
Remember the good ol days when we made that extra pass? The first two games on the road? Those were a thing of beauty. I’m sorry but this team is like watching frogs boil, its like they don’t realize their situation until it is too late.
You know that I am blind (almost) and I have been watching you and some others (except SG). I wondered and watched closely with some bigs just standing there and seeing TH gets mugged. You know, my wife won’t allow me to yell at tv nor at the MC but I have wondered many times why are we still playing in the wcc. I have lost interest how they (wcc) play their game having 8 players (or is it 7) in the game. I pondered, not often like I have since utard joined the pac12. I don’t want to go back to mwc because almost the same problem with wcc. I don’t think joining aac is the best choice either. Anyone in the p5 going to be a long time waiting to come.
But your Jimmer factor? Those LP guys and others are suppose to be very good starting in two years should be fun to watch during non conference games but I do worried about the wcc. If we don’t get through this wcc including GU then I like to see Dave Rose get upset and wanting out of wcc. I want to leave wcc but Dave Rose has said some two years ago, “wcc is good fit for us.”
And this is dring me nuts, why Frank Bartley IV is still not playing?
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FBIV got more PT on a better team last season than he is getting on the current team.
That requires some explaining from somebody else because I have no idea why that is. Josh Sharp played more last year. The strategy and approach this season is confusing. The team has an identity crisis in full bloom. They have a bunch of shooters but nobody who thinks rebounding and defense are important parts of the game. Newsflash - those are probably as important or even more important than having a team full of shoot first, ask questions later (no pun intended) guys.
That strategy results in more problems than it solves…
I wouldn’t say they don’t care, but there is not a vocal leader on the court. I don’t know if it isn’t their personalities, if they are coached to conceal their emotions, or if they don’t feel they can be vocal with the WCC officials, but it is maddening.
The team needs at least one vocal leader to get in the grills of those that aren’t pulling their weight in a way that the team responds. Here’s hoping that things change/click in a hurry to salvage the season.