As I see it, BYU Football has 3 Options

  1. We can quit football altogether. 
     Working for what we want, is not worth the effort.
     We are too good to make needed compromises.
     We have too high of values to be a good football team. 
    Teams like Alabama, Georgia, Penn State, TCU  
    Oklahoma State, Miami, Oklahoma USC, ND, Washington, 
    UCF, Va. Tech., NC State, Wash. St., Auburn, Stanford, 
    Mich. St., Michigan, S. Florida, W. Va., Utah, SDS, are all 
    ranked teams because they  do not have the high
     standards that we have.
     We have the Honor Code that is more important than anything 
     that successful teams has, and therefor we can not compete
     against others.
     We have the missionary program that sends us rusty missionaries 
     that need time to get their feet  back under them before they can play.
    Everyone is unfair and prejudice against us.  

    It is the LGBT community that keeps us from getting into P5 conferences.

    Other teams cheat and we will not lower our standards to compete against them.

    Have I missed any of our excuses for not being as great as we once were?
    Oh yes, I almost forgot, these are different times.

2… We can make no changes, we can for ever more, do mostly,
(due to not making needed changes) , continue to fall into an area of
non relevance in College Football.

    We may become flexible in being at the top, the bottom, or anywhere in
    between as a member of a conference like Big Sky or any FCS Conference.  

    We could use our empty LE Stadium  for General Conference or to whom 
    ever will rent it from us.  We can convert our indoor practice facility into 
    Practice Basket ball courts.

     We can ask our Boosters to make larger donations due to all the empty 
     seats at football games and the lack of funds from TV Revenue and 
     Book store athlete dress ware sales.

     We could become, as fans, the generation, that allowed BYU Football 
     to become meaningless and non supported.

3.       We will not give up.  We will keep fighting harder.  We will  have
          patience in the short term to bring about long term positive results.  

          We will continue to support, (win or lose), our team and our coaches,

        We will let those in power know that BYU Football has been one of the,
        (if not the), greatest diversions from the stress of everyday life, and we 
        are not willing to give that sport up. 

        If those in power are not (football capable) of ,  or not willing to think of, 
        ways to bring about recruiting of 4-5 star recruits in order to play vs teams 
        with 4-5 star recruits, than a (think tank) should be hired to figure out a way 
        for us.   

We must stop using the (way to over worked),( over played) for far too long ( excuses),
like the honor code, the missionary, the GLBT community, the prejudice, the unfairness
of others, and our own superior way of life, over all other teams in football that make us
too good for competition and therefore not being able to keep up in football.

It’s over due time for a change in our thinkings, our actions, and our behavior.

Nobody is going to let us in their P5 conference just because our morals are higher
than theirs.
No body is going to let us in the P5 conference because we need differential standards due
to our Honor Code and our missionary program.

No body is going to let us into their P5 conference just to show us that they are not
prejudice against us.

Legislation through law suits are not going to make us capable of playing in a
P5 conference.

If we are ever going to get into a P5 conference, and as the years go by, (sooner than later),
the P5 conferences will be the only conferences that anyone ever pays any attention to,
and the rest of us outside of the P5 conference will be like a present day JV team in high school.
Nobody will want to take the time to watch us, much less. pay to watch us, when there are much
more interesting thing to do than watch one meaningless team play against another meaningless

If we are the generation that lets BYU Football continue the slide down, down, down into a team of
no relevance, than shame on us. If we continue to see our selves so superior over the fans of other
universities, shame on us. If we let BYU Football die, because we still hang on to our overworked
excuses for failure instead of making the needed changes for success, than shame, shame, shame
on us.

If we truly love BYU Football, instead of making excuse for our failures, we must address realistically
our failures, deal with them, make changes to correct them, and be successful again, or we must stop
calling our selves BYU Football fans.

1 Like

I don’t think this will happen, but if we and the outcast conferences (CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, MWC, etc.) formed our own division and played each other . . .

What would be wrong with that?

If we dropped down to D2 (Portland St., Richmond, James Madison, etc.) . . .

What, exactly would be wrong with that?

Again, I don’t think that will happen, but if it did, why “must we stop calling ourselves BYU Football fans?”

Granted, I think many BYU fans would simply become USC or Oregon fans or whatever, but there would still be BYU fans in lower divisions. If it came to that, I would be just fine with it.

Wow! You have a lot of time on your hands :slight_smile:


Why don’t you just go to your high school games on Friday nights? Unless they are playiing for their division championship, it wouid be about the same and you could probably get into a game between $2.00 and $5.00 per game.



I do not have nearly as much time on my hands as I have passion for my BYU football teams since school year 1953-54 and especially since LE’s took over as HC 1-1/2 decades later

The passion of the fans, inclluding me, in the 80’s and 90’s could never accept the fact that there are today, so called fans, that don’t even care about the past and are wiling to drop down into la la land of insignificance in order to win most of our games each season and get a bowl game each season instead of working hard to have a winning season in a P5 conference that matters.

What good does it do, to have a winning season with a bowl game if we have to drop to a low enough conference to achieve it. The only thrill of winning for me is when we win against the best. There is no gain in winning against the worst

Because I am a BYU fan. Whether or not they are in the hunt for a national championship, a conference championship, or whatever. My fandom doesn’t depend on whether or not they are accepted into the upper echelons of the NCAA or not.

And no, there is a HUGE difference between Division 2, or even Divison 3 college football and even state championship high school football. It is not “about the same,” and exaggerating so much to make your point destroys the point you are trying to make.

There has been no talk of leaving Independent which I am happy for now. But downgrading to Div II/III? I think not what other posters are saying.

One bad year and we should drop a level or two? Why? Seems odd!

Thankk you for your opinion. Occasionally we do agree on some issues.
Anything short from you, that differs from our Cougars striving for anything other than all
that they can be, when given the right opportunity to do so, with bring a difference of opinion from me.

I totallly agree with you on this issue.

I think that wanting a winning seasons, with bowl games by playing weak
non significiant teams is follie.

Fighting your hearts out vs significant teams, (P5 teams) and
hoping for a winning season, is worth much more to be, than having a
an false ego trip, a false pride trip, and a need to be better than someone else,
simply by beating up on kids with out the means to compete that we have.
It takes on a bullyness to me when we play below our ability just for a win.

Well, other teams feel the same and that’s why we have them on our schedule as well as teams better than us.
The point I was making is most P5 conferences have only 2 or 3 elite teams. Most teams are average and ordinary like we are sometimes. However, we have in the past performed at a higher level than our so-called ability.


It would take far more pages than this site would allow, to tell you what I see wrong with going to Division 2 football in order to win more games, have a winning season and get a bowl game.

I might be able to squeeze onto a few pages, if this site would allow, what I see wrong, in forming a new conference of G5 teams.

A synapse of what I see wrong, is that in order to get the patsies in that would make us King Pin, would be worse than any existing G5 conference.

In order to to form a new challenging G5 conferences, being as we are this season, would require much of the same changes that it would take to prepare ourselves for a P5 conference so if we are going to make those required changes, why cut our selves short by relegating us to another G5 status, instead of making the extra effort to make us a competitive P5 member of of P5 conference.

Right on Ruby. To me its a G-5 conference like the American Athletic Conference or form another conference where we can get some of the goodies that we want like “EXPOSURE” and money in another type of conference.

" Granted, I think many BYU fans would simply become USC or Oregon fans or whatever, but there would still be BYU fans in lower divisions. If it came to that, I would be just fine with it." I agree with this part of your post, and that is what I find wrong with it exactly. I would rather continue with the effort to be peers with the schools which you mention, i.e.
USC, Oregon, or what ever. I feel like we have way to much pride for our past accomplishments to give up now because we don’t want to put forth the effort to compete at the highest level.

Thank you dew. I totally agree. “downgrading to Div II/III? I think not what other posters are saying.”

The problem is that we aren’t taking any risks. Well, at ECU we started to in the second half and Tanner throws for 200 yards. Now, we just have to do that all game long and then figure out how to score in the blue zone.

Thank you grasshopper. "One bad year and we should drop a level or two? Why? Seems odd! "

It seems odd to me that any fan, knowing the proud history of BYU Cougars and all that LE brought to us, would consider anything other than striving for perfection, rather than escaping to the easy way out.

Winning vs a FCS team or lower G5 team is not nearly as rewarding to me as being competitive and looking good,
win or lose, vs a quality P5 team.

In other words, I would rather be in the lower half of the best than to be in the top half of the worst.


I am more in agreement with your statement than I am opposed to it. " most P5 conferences have only 2 or 3 elite teams. Most teams are average and ordinary like we are sometimes. "

The main difference is this.

They have already made it into the P5 conference where they get the most 4-5 start players, the best coaches, the best paying bowl games and the best TV contracts, and we have not. We have to try harder while we are trying to achieve that which they have already achieved.

I’m just speaking from where I’m at, what I’m seeing. It feels to me that there has been a shift in the landscape, and things have changed to the point where I don’t think that we can adapt and compete. Time will tell, but I think the convergence of offensive/defensive evolution, NCAA landscape (including super conferences and more insulation from those on the fringes), and shifts in society all mean that it will be harder and harder for BYU to win 8-9+ games again. Barring innovation akin to what happened in the 1970s - 1990s with BYU, although I can’t imagine what offensive/defensive innovation is yet undiscovered.

I’ve made it clear that I am not advocating dropping down, especially not after one dismal season. But, if in fact (after time has told) we need to drop down in order to play teams we can consistently compete with, then I am fine with that. We are not yet at that point. I am concerned that there are factors at play that will make it so that it will never “be the same again” for BYU as far as competitiveness in football.


I do have some miss-placed empathy for what you are communicating now.

Back in the day, when Utah and TCU were in the MWC with us and Boise State announced that they would be joining us,
I cried out louder than anyone else to form a new G5 conference.

n that new G5 conference I sited Ourselves, BYU, along with Utah, TCU, and Boise State as four definite’s in the new conference. (Like forming the MWC out of the 16 team WAC)

With that, I dreamed of giving ND absolutely anything they wanted, including non sharing revenue, non sharing TV rights, and free agency to play any of their non conference games with whomever they wished without needing permission.

With this 5 strong team base, we would already be better than the( than P5 Big East), which is no more.

With those five teams, I thought it would be easier to attract teams like Boston College and Baylor, also religious schools like ND, BYU, TCU. I really thought that we could make it to a P6 conference status.

That was than and this is now.

We no longer have Utah, TCU, and probably not Boise State. We no longer have the attraction to get someone like ND and therefore not Boston College or Baylor.

Right now, our only option to stay in the race for significance is to stay Independent and prove our ability to vs other P5 teams. We prove nothing vs lower G5 teams or worse yet, FCS teams.