Nice to hear a level headed fan throw in their 2 cents. Despite the mediocre start to the season, I think this team will gel and finish strong. I am looking forward to what a healthy Bryant will add. I’m still excited to watch how the season develops regardless of our post season chances.
Steals are the smallest indicator of defensive ability, but they are still important to look at. Much more important is how many points come from the man that you are assigned to guard. Allowing your man to score or go baseline or to the rim and collect fouls on the BYU bigs is also something that has to be noted. Allowing wide open 3’s launched from your assigned area (that go in) is another sign of poor defense in a zone D. I don’t think there is much argument that Chatman was a good defender from knowledgeable bb people in the program… after all that is why he was given his minutes from Rose to begin with. Emery has the ability to defend well, but he loses his concentration on defense at times. Davis simply is too slow of foot to be a good defender, which was on full display against UVU and Valpo. That is why Childs is playing more now. LJ is decent but a little suspect on a quick point guard on the defensive end. Haws is the problem at this point in time on defense especially if Davis is on the floor with Haws. We can handle one of them on the floor at a time against good teams. Haws gave up 26 points against SC on man to man (and zone) and he wasn’t even tasked with guarding the main scorers. He has to make defense a priority to become a good all around player at BYU. He could get by at LP with average defense, or leaving early to start the break and get easy points, but not on the D-1 level. He is having a rude awakening. Jimmer had Jackson to take away the other teams’ leading scorer and Davies to protect the rim behind him, but Haws and the rest of this year’s team don’t have a Jackson to rely on. Steals take place far more often when you are sitting in the passing lanes and can jump the pass, not when you are guarding the primary ball handler, dribble driver, slasher of the other team. Jackson was so good that he kept the main threat of the other team from actually getting the ball. Eventually, the other team would try to force the ball to their best player and Jackson would take off with the ball. He was great on defense and as you saw, he could hit open 3’s with enough consistency that teams couldn’t double up Jimmer. Haws’ poor defense coupled with his TO’s put a big dent in any offense that he gives us.
The quote of Chatman being the best defender on the team came from coach Rose but he was probably just kidding, right?
The differences I see here… between what thawk is saying and what G2, Glenn and some others are saying is quite simple.
thawk obviously has more in depth knowledge and understanding of what everyone thinks is going on out on the floor. Am I saying that G2 or Glenn don’t know what they are talking about? Absolutely not. Am I suggesting that maybe thawk knows more? Yeah, a little bit. It’s no big deal. 
And let me state again, hoping it doesn’t have the reverse affect that has been unintended all along, I don’t hate the Lone Peak boys! Now having said that, there are some who will read it and not take it for what it is worth. People tend to interpret criticism as hate in our current society. I don’t get that. When thawk describes the issues Haws is having it isn’t because he hates TJ Haws… it is because TJ is actually having issues… with his defense, with his shooting, with a lot of things. Unfortunately for TJ he is being thrown under the microscope and scrutinized because he is getting a lot of playing time and his local pedigree is impressive. On the other hand, it’s funny how everyone wants to say that they haven’t seen anything from this player or that player that shows they deserve more time when those players rarely see the floor in the first place. 
I could go on and on but I will summarize what I have said several times by saying that thawk is a smart dude and he knows his stuff. His understanding of the game is more in-depth than mine and pretty much every poster here. I would advise the rest of you to read what he is saying and understand that it is accurate and well thought out. You could learn a lot about the game taking notes here… I know I have. 
If it is too much for you then that is fine, you can continue to enjoy the game on a more casual fan basis. Sometimes I wish that is what I could do but I’ve made it way more of a big deal to myself than I ever should have and now I’m trapped. 
Like life the truth probably lies somewhere between the right and the left. The point to me is not individuals but what the team needs right now. An alternate guard that comes in and shoots 50% from the floor and 80% from the line in the 18-20 minutes he is in there and I really don’t care who it is-it will improve this team dramatically. As for Dastrup in the 24 minutes he has played he is shooting 50% and has 12 rebounds which is the highest rebound to minutes played on the team -if your going to throw out numbers-he is doing pretty well for being the last one to return from his mission
If Rose thought Jordan was such a good player, why did he drive him away? Maybe there is more to the story but I for one don’t think Rose is the problem nor getting fired for it. I think Jordan saw an opportunity where he could be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and took it and it seems to be working out for him. I am probably wrong but that is my guess. I wish he stayed but he didn’t. So be it.
An alternate guard that comes in and shoots 50% FG and 80% FT would be awesome, especially when Haws is not doing very well. Like you Mr. Burton, I don’t know who that is right now and I don’t think the coaches know either. LJ’s numbers from anywhere but the FT are very poor. Other guys haven’t got many minutes but haven’t done much good with their opportunities either. If any of these grass is greener players are the super heroes some purport them to be, then they need to show it. I am confident if they show it in the small minutes then they will get more minutes. I think Rose doesn’t see a clear answer and who to develop with more time. He has given Frampton a little more time but that has not been terribly productive. Maybe Beo and the others need the same but if they don’t produce or make a positive difference what choice is there but to continue to invest in Haws?
I agree Dastrup’s numbers look good, mostly in garbage time, but he has not impressed me with his play. Sorry I can’t remember which game it was but I looked forward to him hitting the floor and when he did, I thought his play was immature and out of control. To me he made a bad first impression and perhaps I am overly critical because of it. Do I think he is better than Mika or Childs? No! Aytes or Davis? Probably not but maybe in time.
Have I ever said Davis is good? Nope. Have I said he is better than last year? Yep. Is he? Objectively the numbers clearly say yes. Subjectively I also believe he is better.
I am glad that THawk is the smartest basketball person on the forum. I don’t know how that is obvious but I’ll take Jim(mer’s) word for it. Wherever you are Mr. THawk, I would happy buy you lunch if I am in your vicinity. If you are related to Jim(mer) Hawk I am sure you are a heck of a guy and it would be my honor. I did enjoy your reply post. I felt it was far less emotional and much more logical. I completely agree the way we are guarding the perimeter is weak to say at the best. It is not just Haws either. Seems to be everyone. Perhaps that is in part due to the defensive scheme? Whatever the case, Haws and everyone else needs to up their game in this regard. While I believe there are some caveats to your defensive arguments I mostly agree but as stated, there are few objective stats for defensive. Steals is about it unless you are a big then rebounds carry more weight but as you mentioned those don’t quite tell the story. After that there is a lot of subjectivity when making comparisons between players defensive skills because the situations and the opponents and the defensive scheme and the opponents offensive scheme, and so on are never identical. I am perfectly fine with saying Player X is a better defender because X, Y and Z and as stated previously I agree that Haws and other’s defense has been less than acceptable.
I used the word “hate” regarding the LP kids for a reason. I think the dispersion cast against them at times has been over the top and undeserved. They were born blue, bleed blue, and played exceptionally well in HS and were highly rated. I disagree that picking these kids up was a bad thing. If these kids went to some other Utah school and were tearing it up how much moaning would we have to endure then? How much dispersion would we cast on Dave Rose then? Picking up these kids made sense to me. Not every kid, especially highly rated LDS kids will come to BYU on any circumstances. So you get the best of the kids who want to come. Doesn’t help to heap dispersion on them. Mika, Haws and Emery were highly rated starts at LP and performed exceptionally well against stiff competition around the US. Now some suggest it is OK to have picked up Mika but not OK to have picked up Haws in the same breath. Again, perhaps we ought to move on from our love/hate for anything LP. I don’t hear the coaches or players harping on it. Only pundits and fans. Why don’t we just cuss and discuss current performance? They are not bad kids and have incredible talent. The much maligned Haws has only played a few games post HS. Do we expect this post-mission, never played D-1 ball before, thin bodied freshman to out outplay every upper class men he faces? Is he allowed to develop too? Or is it time to call him a bust and bench him? Remember his offensive numbers during his poor performance equal or exceed the much beloved Chatman’s performance. His defense is not as strong and his turnovers are troublesome but his steal rate way exceeds Chatman’s so give him some credit. I think Haws has the history, pedigree, attitude and skills to be very good. He just isn’t there yet and nobody else has impressed enough to steal his minutes. Maybe in time. We shall see.
Lastly, I desire post-season success as much as the next guy but like Glenn I am interested to see how this team develops. I for one am not ready to pull out the pitch forks and torches.
OK…back to the chores burning debris in the back yard and stripping an old car for parts so I can junk it. Thanks for the diversion and the friendly banter.