BYU vs. USF at San Francisco

Lee has a nice little hook but my he is so slow and nailed to the floor. I agree he shouldn’t start. A lot depends on who BYU is playing, SMC and SF were probably two of the tallest teams in the conference so Harward and Haarms got the minutes and from the little I saw Harward was a beast. BYU needs someone that can consistently hit open jump shots and Knell worked out ok against SMC, but his stat line didn’t look good against SF

I never did a second half analysis but Harward was a beast in the second half. It just shows you, once again, that with a little talent and lots of hard work you can rise up and accomplish so much. He deserves TONS of credit for working hard and staying with it to maximize his potential, which is obviously helped a lot by coach Pope.

This BYU team wears their opponents down and works hard to find a way.

Two things here… first you are acknowledging that Worthington had no business being on the team and second I only compared the two in that regard… that I couldn’t understand how Lee starts and gets so much playing time. Neither one is a D-1 level player.

Lee was a good practice player for practice… Lee can score but doesn’t unless he is close to the basket or wide open 3’s

“Lee was a good practice player for practice“

These are the type of priceless Hopper comments that keep us reading his posts”

When you have three road games against the best WCC teams and only lose to the #1 team in the nation, that is a BIG WIN and a Dance team resume. I thought all week we could lose one to either SMC or SF, We didn’t, gone are the Rose years of losing road records. BYU is locking teams down late with defense, something I haven’t seen since…the days of '47

yup, Just look at the stats, BYU’s bench came up with 31 points and 27 boards! Our bench matched SF’s total rebounding for the entire game. We have the deepest bench in the WCC, don’t we? Hence the late game blow outs.

How can you objectively say that? I love Lee’s game, granted, he is not Harward but he can DUNK under the rim, Worthlesston never dunked in 4 years, prove me wrong!. Lee can back most centers down and use his baby hook, that is a weapon, Worthington’s only weapon was a rich daddy. Lee can hit a 3, and really, why do we care who the starter is? I said it many times before the season, Lee would be our 3rd best Center on the team and he is. Team player, most guys that get their minutes trimmed end up transferring, Lee never complains. Glue guy that you need on a winning team.
Johnson is also a glue guy, not a star but he is the one guy that can spell Barcello and actually defend the other team’s best player.

Averette is playing under control now and is rounding out to be the player we hoped he would be. Who was guarding Shabazz? just aking for a friend. Still a liability on defense because of his size but certainly a factor in our wins. Barcello is the star, when he plays well, we win. BYU gets a guard of his caliber about once every ten years.

George has finally played into a big minutes guy, Eating up Harding’s minutes, BTW, can we lay off Harding a little, the leg is shot, and he still got 4 rebs. He is dragging that leg around the best he can.

Lastly, Harward is a Beast. 11 boards and 13 on 19 minutes is WORK, Well done.

And now that this killer road trip is over, BYU in favored in every game but Gonzaga. At our place? 3s falling, do I dare dream?

I’d be careful about your dreams-On any given night you can lose. Yes-two great defensive games and BYU should be favored against everyone except Gonzaga, but they aren’t the team they were last year and there are some good teams in the WCC. I would point to Pepperdine and Pacific as troublesome road games and SMC and SFU are still going to be tough home games. BYU needs someone to step up and start hitting open jump shots, Knell, Harding, or Johnson. Not taking anything away from the wins this week, but still work to be done. SMC led Gonzaga for most of the first half and then hit another 2/17 drought and lost so if they can ever stop tanking during parts of their games, they could be a force. Lastly, on Lee-better than Worthington- much better shooter-but doesn’t play as big as he is or as persistent as Harward has been and that’s why his minutes are down, but on a given night-can be a factor-Worthington was never a factor :wink:

Harding isn’t even supporting a brace. The knee is fine. Don’t know what has happened but he looks slow. Everyone else got better.

Yes some good games left, BYU does need to pick it up in many ways.
If the defense would play the first ten minutes the way it has in the last ten minutes against USF and SMC…
If Knell and Harding would get back in the game…
If the 3’s would start falling…
If Harward could get a bit more rest, and be better conditioned for next year…
if George could continue as hot…
If Lohner could shake off his freshman shooting blues…
If Haarms would start hitting his threes to earn his way into the NBA, instead of limping in on his height…

Last years team was more fun to watch, not as much depth, though,
Any word on where yoeli will land?
This years team is proving that last years toughness has lasted at least another year…best locker room in america maybe will do the trick?
Plenty of room for improvement, but the three teams they have lost to have a total of three losses.
My dream
win to a good for dance seed, prove last years team could have gone deep,
Beat the Zags, in front of a full Big MAC or even better for a conference tourney title and a boost to the dance seed. Either win would probably relieve some of the building pressure on the Zags, though I do think the only team likely to beat them this year is Baylor…Zags defense needs to improve…or maybe just their best players need to stay in the game long enough to boost their defensive stats and experience…Zags a different topic for a different day…
Much respect to the team
Much respect to Pope
Much respect to Few and his Zags.

Yolie is in the G League with Atlanta…

Almost everyone gave it a shot but nobody could stop him. He was in a zone. Honestly it was kind of scary because it they had more time he might have brought them back. It was Damian Lilliard or Steph Curry like… I don’t think Pope tried George on him, that might have slowed him down a bit but he was unstoppable for the most part.

Objectively the only comparison was that I don’t think either player is D-1 level. Lee works hard and accepts his role… I guess. I have seen him make a couple of good plays this season, usually one or two a game but the rest of the time? I just don’t see it. He is extremely slow, there is no fluidity to his game at all. He is way too hunched over on D, making himself 6 inches shorter. He has no outside shot (3-13 on 3’s) and doesn’t draw fouls (5-7 f/t shooting). He is 7th on team in rebounding, even behind Averette! but more important than anything he just doesn’t pass the eye test when he is on the floor. He looks lost much of the time, is too slow and stiff, and has an ugly, fling/flip hook shot. His high school accolades are impressive, with state player of the year, etc. but I imagine that was more a factor of his bulk and physical presence than his basketball skill level. There are not a lot of great basketball players from Idaho. I will bet money that he is a great young man in many other facets of life, just really over rated as a basketball player.

Lastly, and I know this will upset some of you, the best players on the team (outside of Harward, who works his behind off) are from outside the states of Utah and Idaho yet that is where most of them come from. You got Texas, Arizona, Nigeria and Netherlands… once the Haws boys were done, the well dried up.

Living close to Idaho, I can probably answer the Lee question. His size was the big factor, not just height, but girth. Idaho has a lot of great athletes, but not necessarily great leapers, so Lee was actually a man among boys in high school and had essentially the same game then as he has now. Put him in California or 35 other states, he becomes less notable. His little jump hook is effective at times, but he dribbles a lot to get in position, which slows the game down and sometimes results in getting doubled and creating a turnover, plus he isn’t a great passer. He has his place on this team and even though he has been starting, his minutes aren’t great and with injuries taking out the other two front line players, Pope is somewhat limited in his options

In addition BYU is not blueblood league like Duke North Carolina Kentucky and Gonzaga. Never mind leave out Gonzaga. Those two slow players were from Coach D Rose not from Mark Pope. Shame on Dave Rose for picking up Luke Worthington. Lee is doing better since Coach Mark Took over.

Uggg… Not every player has to be Danny Ainge! You need the Lee’s on your team. He’s a great young man that is well grounded and a great role model. He doesn’t play a lot but is a great practice player. You need them.

I hesitate to bring up race, but it is what it is. Recruiting areas like Idaho are really lacking in black athletes. Idaho ranks last in the nation in black population percentages with Montana, Utah is somewhat higher. Blacks have high proportion of good athletes-just look at the NBA and NFL. So if your recruiting areas for basketball are Idaho and the Rocky Mountain states, you may find yourself at a disadvantage compared to some schools. What does this mean? Coaching becomes paramount to get the most out of your talent. Few, Bennett, Rose all started out with a lack of Afro-Americans on there teams. Few was able to raise the bar of Gonzaga’s program to the point where they started attracting better players of all ethnicities. Bennett still hasn’t done that, but is doing a great job anyway. Hopefully, Pope has great recruiting success, but in the meantime is getting the most out of his available talent. Lastly before anyone chimes in, I know that BYU has had a few great, black, basketball players but the percentage is lower in basketball than it has been in football and significantly lower than many schools nationwide.

There’s still a lot of false information about the Church and BYU. All we can do is be good examples and let the players and coaches do their work.

Basically yes-do what we are supposed to do best

I think your post is fair. I also think we will see Pope signing really good recruits from all over, because the word on him is already out: he’s a stud who kids want to play for. Look at what he’s already done in so short a time: Haarms, Averette, and George are excellent players signed just this year, none are LDS, and they are from all over. I really think Pope is getting a “rep” with recruits that you want to play for him (see Lohner as well).

I didn’t say you “didn’t need them”. I also said I bet he is a great young man. I’m not sure about the practice player thing but I will give you that one. I understand what you are saying, Lee shouldn’t be starting (one reason the team starts “slow”) and maybe Harward does better when he comes off the bench to spark the team, George and Lohner too. I am just saying that there are better players who probably didn’t get the high school accolades that Lee did. Did Lee serve a mission?