Church and politics

We have discussed this before, and I will say it again, after today’s press conference I’m more convinced than ever that the church should stay out of politics and focus on teaching the two great commandments.

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Then we would be the Church of Jesus Christ.

Nor would be able to be the beacon on the hill for those searching for further light and knowledge.

No, we would be like all other churches, drifting with the winds as they blow.

We are the most fortunate people on the planet to be guided by Prophets, Seers, and Revelators. Statements like the Proclamation on the Family are clear, solid declarations of the Churches position on emerging public issues. Now, as the public rhetoric heats up the reasoned voice of the Lord’s servants give us clear guidance.

All the commandments are important. All the laws and covenants are important. All the ordinances are vital to one’s eternal progression. As I begin studying to teach lesson 11 in the Gospel Doctrine class, the parables bring to light even more that we are not to hide our light or knowledge from the world. But, to let all people know what it takes to reach the Celestial Kingdom. That includes the two great commandments but much more is needed. It isn’t good enough to just be a good person. They thorns in the parables are those who choke the fullness of the Gospel from people. As with Jesus and his apostles, politics cannot be avoided. However, it is also important to not over extend into a situation where decisions are made that also create more opportunity for Satan to pull people astray. But, sometimes, it’s necessary…

Wait let me understand this a bit better Floyd. So other churches drift in the wind but the LDS church never changes? Cause I’ve seen a few kind of big changes in your church in my lifetime. One thing that bothers me a bit about religious people is that they always seem to see themselves as a bit special,“the most fortunate people on the planet” in Rickster’s estimation. Well that is awfully convenient for you, but I have to wonder why God bothers to have chosen people. Would we think highly of a father who picked favorites among his children? It also seems like if he were going to choose an entire race of people as more worthy than others (the basis for all racism) he could have at least told the ancient Israelites to boil their water, as opposed to not eating shell fish and some of the other strange health constraints. It certainly would have saved a lot of lives.

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Like I told you before, I was not always LDS…

The one thing you are confusing is “Prinicples” vs “Policy” when it comes to changes in the LDS church.

The basic Principles of the gospel has always been there, but we have had new ones revealed through time by the Prophets. That is why they call it “Revelation”, We don’t make major changes in our beliefs because of the public opinions we make need changes as the world changes…

Here are just of few changes that other churches has changed because in my opinion they are bending to the “modern” view of things.

  1. Women ordained minsters.
  2. Gay marriage accepted and performed
  3. Celibacy of the Priest
  4. Jesus is a Prophet rather than a Messiah
  5. Modernized scriptures (with parts being left out)
  6. People living together is accepted.
  7. Reject that Revelations from God exists…

This is just a minor sampling, but it comes to show that church have changed their standards based on public opinion instead of revelation from God…

The only people who are “Chosen” are those that have allowed themselves to follow him, live the standards he has set and try the best they can… Now You might think I am only talking about LDS members, you would be wrong. I think there are a lot of people in other religions who want to live the way that the scriptures teach us and they try to do it the best they can.

Excellent response Floyd! I noticed he did not respond to you.

I think grasshopper is a genious Floyd :slight_smile:

Still no response to Floyd. Maybe what he wrote sunk into your head finally :slight_smile:

Either that or I don’t disagree with anything he said lol. He’s presenting his beliefs, and doing it quite admirably in my estimation. I wouldn’t expect you to know anything about that.

KC, should you and the rest of us LDS individuals stay out of politics too? What about,“one man, one vote?”

Tax paying individuals should not stay out, churches by definition in this country should. If churches want to give up tax except status, they are welcome to enter the political arena. Otherwise, by law they should stay out of it.

Not when the decisions of politicians will have a negative effect on Churches. Also, politicians should stay out of religion too. That’s what the Constitution says. It doesn’t say that churches can’t influence politicians. And, it doesn’t say that the government can stop churches and individuals from exercising their religions. Nothing about taxes with regards to the 1st Amendment. That’s added stuff from the left.

My opinion is simply this, if you don’t pay into the system, you shouldn’t be involved in the system through politics. If you pay into the system, you have every right to participate in the system.

Religions and charities and other tax exempt entities should not influence politics or political process. Their individual tax paying members should, but the organization as a whole should not. And I believe the law is pretty clear on this and tax except status.

Okay. So, you would then be okay with not allowing individuals who don’t pay taxes like the poor, many retirees and sick non-working persons including illegal aliens, not being allowed to say a word, protest or vote. Got it. Okay, let’s do it! It will be great to have 100 Senators and 425 House members Conservative Republicans. And, a conservative President! All state legislatures and governors will be Conservative Republicans too! Oh, and all judges, including 9 US Supreme Court Justices will be Conservative.
We will then get rid of abortions on demand for birth control, gay marriage, shrink governments, lessen regulatory rules like EPA crap, protect the boarders and eliminate illegal aliens and so much more!!! Awesome!

The poor pay taxes, the retired pay and did pay taxes. Illegal’s by definition don’t have any political involvement anyway, so that’s a mute point. Citizens here from other countries do contribute to our society so they some limited input.

But back on track, organizations that operate under tax except status, should stay out of it. If they want to drop the tax except status they can be involved in politics or other areas. But as long as they chose to take advantage of one part of the law, they should be accepting of the conditions of that law. It’s pretty simple.

Sorry, but the poor do not pay taxes. In fact, 50% of the workers do not pay taxes. They take government handouts. Period!

Now, what justification are you making to connect paying taxes to being part of the political process? What does one have to do with the other? For over a century women could not vote. Now, you want to disassociate religious from voting and even speaking out minds? Talk about totalitarian crap! You are scary!

Not religious, religions and other tax except corporations. Stay on topic

And you do realize there are more to taxes than federal income tax, right?

So, are you in favor of labor unions having to follow this too? They also have tax exempt status.

KC: Did you hear the news about what the present Pope of the Catholic Church, who publicly made a statement of his belief of the Palestinian state? Then the Pope Francis had the Vatican officially recognize the Palestinian state. If that isn’t a church in politics, who officially is the legitimate government of a state/country, I don’t know what it is.
Yet the American Catholic Church has scores of its church members in the USA. I don’t see the U.S. Internal Revenue Service denying the tax exempt status of the American Catholic Church and its thousands of congregations in the USA.