Jim:It was a game that mattered. It was the difference between ncaa tourney and no ncaa tourney, wcc tournament title and no wcc tournament title. Need I say more?
SG: No more needs to be said. You are wrong. It’s up to the players to figure out how the game is being officiated and make adjustments. Playing smarter than your opponent, not harder as you suggested.
No, actually you are wrong. Mainly it’s because your analysis lacks depth. You are assuming that every game is officiated a certain way and the officials are consistent in how they are officiating that specific game. That is where you get off track. I don’t believe each game is officiated a particular way and that the players are supposed to determine that officiating style for that game. Yes, the player we are discussing here has talent and upside, but that doesn’t change the fact that in the game that mattered he committed fouls that weren’t called and he travelled on more than one occasion and it wasn’t called. So are the BYU players supposed to foul and travel and not expect to get called for it as well? There is no adjusting to that…
Maybe you will understand my point, but probably not.
In the specific game we are mentioning, the wcc tournament semis and game that BYU lost by 4 points, the officials did just enough to help Gonzaga win the game. Sabonis and Wiltjer each had 1 foul in that game. Kaufusi and Davis each had 4 fous. Gonzaga was whistled for 13 fouls and shot 25 free throws, BYU was whistled for 22 fouls and shot 15 free throws. Game over… I’m not saying that every game requires the teams to be equal in fouls and free throws or close because it doesn’t. What I am saying is in games that matter or have some significance (ie. winner to the ncaa tournament) Gonzaga is given the benefit of the doubt or often times, the edge they need to win the game.
There is no argument left. I win and you lose. Game over.
On the contrary. I never said every game was officiated the same way. Just the opposite. Because all games will be different depending on the officials and who they are, their mental state, their physical state and other factors. It’s up to each team and each player to figure out quickly how they are offiating each game and make adjustments. And then just win. No excuses. Don’t play or coach if you are going to make excuses. Real men don’t make excuses 
Yep… called that one. It is pretty clear that you don’t understand what I am writing.
Let’s try this again. I am copying and pasting the exact same thing I just said. - “I don’t believe each game is officiated a particular way and that the players are supposed to determine that officiating style for that game. Yes, the player we are discussing here has talent and upside, but that doesn’t change the fact that in the game that mattered he committed fouls that weren’t called and he travelled on more than one occasion and it wasn’t called. So are the BYU players supposed to foul and travel and not expect to get called for it as well? There is no adjusting to that…”
You can’t tell the difference between what I am saying and your reply, which doesn’t address my assertion. Everyone else will… I think it’s a mental block you have.
Here is what you said also but omitted:
Again, I’m not assuming every game is officiated a certain was and consistent. That’s not what I wrote.
Then how can you expect the players to “adjust” to the way a game is called? as you say. When the officials do the Gonzaga games that matter, it is like they are intimidated or influenced or afraid. I don’t know what the real problem is, but I do know that when the game is an important one, the officials call the game to Gonzaga’s advantage.
The only way BYU or any other team is going to beat them when it matters is to thoroughly outplay them and hope the officials are objective… something they haven’t been ever since BYU came into the league and probably before that.
Jim: Then how can you expect the players to “adjust” to the way a game is called?
SG: Same way an outfielder adjusts to a windy day. If officials are allowing lottle contact then don’t be so physical when guarding. Stop grabbing and stuff like that. If they are allowing grabbing then grab back and be more physical. Adjusting is something we do in life all the time.
In Basketball, all games are important. Be ready and realize you have to make your foul shots and higher shooting percentage. Both were problems this past year.
You just don’t get it…
this mental block to really reading and knowing what another poster is saying. I’ll bet EVERY other reader/poster that read what I wrote understood it even if they didn’t agree with it.
Oh, you were clear on what you wrote. Just admit it was a silly statement instead of acting high and mighty. Everyone read it and saw the same mistake and scratched their heads too. You may have meant something else but wrote what you did. 
I can see your point grasshopper but I also see Jim’s point. I coached a rec league team of high school players several years ago. One team we played had a big, dominant kid. I had a smaller player who was athletic and quick. He played aggressively on offense and got the big kid in foul trouble. We won the game handily. We met the same team in the championship game. I saw their coach go have a word with the refs before the game. We went with the same match-up to start the game. This time, my player couldn’t get a call. The refs called the game completely different. The refs decided to let the players play. We adjusted like you suggested and we still won the game. But I’ll always wonder what the other coach said to the refs and whether that affected the way the game was called. I realize that different refs will call the game differently based on their experience and skill level. I agree that the players need to adjust their game to how it is being called. The real issue is when the refs call the game differently for certain players. The last time we played Gonzaga, Sabonis played aggressively yet only got one foul the entire game. If he had gotten two fouls in the first half, he would have had to go to the bench. As it was, he got to play unencumbered by foul trouble and he got to play the entire game. Things were different on the other end of the floor in my opinion. Our guys tried to adjust to the game the way the refs were calling it. But, the refs weren’t letting our bigs play with the same level of aggressiveness as the GU bigs. Kaufusi, Davis, Austin each ended the game with 4 fouls (12 total fouls on our bigs who played a combined 47 minutes). Wiltjer and Sabonis ended the game with 1 foul each (Wiljer played 37 minutes and Sabonis played 39 minutes for a total of 76 minutes). So the Gonzaga bigs played a combined 29 more minutes than the BYU bigs and got a combined 2 fouls compared to 12 fouls for the BYU bigs. That is the sort of ref job that makes guys like Jim and I think the fix is in. BYU lost that game by 4 points and I think the game would have had a different outcome had the game been called evenly on both ends of the court.
I can also see your point and why you say them. First, as to Jim’s statement, I think he wrote it wrong and it was humorous. He made it sound that players can’t adjust. You just pointed out they can. Now, if he will admit his error we can move on.
As to your points, individual refs do call games differently. They have different levels on all things. So, the first thing is with BYU vs GU games, they weren’t the same refs. Adjust. Second, the skill level of Sabonis and our bigs not close. Sabonis was able to change some things and stay aggressive without fouling. Not over reaching and staying on the ground. Little things a trained eye can see. As for Kaufusi and others, we kept chest bumping and over reaching in that second game. Something we weren’t called on as much in the first game. Different ref or refs.
Our shooting went south too. There were other reasons for the loss as well. Some players have the talent to adjust. Others don’t is what I’m saying.
In your game, you adjusted and won with talent as good or better than the other team.
Still wrong and still confused. I didn’t make it sound like the players can’t adjust. My point was that some of the time it doesn’t matter. If the officials are going to make sure that a certain player does not get into foul trouble or does not get called for travelling (ie. Sabonis in the wcc tourney game) then there is NO adjusting to that. How do the BYU players “adjust” to a player on the opposite team not being called for the same types of fouls that they are called for?
You see, this is what I am talking about with your lack of analysis with any depth. What I just stated happens on occasion and there is no “adjusting” for it. The only hope is to completely outplay the other team. BYU fell 4 points short and made a game effort but could not overcome or “adjust” to the fact that the officials refused to call Sabonis for travelling or any foul that was not overtly obvious.
This stuff happens in the nba with regularity. How was Steph Curry supposed to “adjust” to the fact that the officials were obsessed with fouling him out of the game in order to allow Lebron to be the star of the finals and bring a title to Cleveland? There was no ADJUSTING… it was clear what the agenda was. This happens in the wcc with regards to Gonzaga when it matters.
I’ve explained this for the third time. I can’t help you understand it anymore.
Yeah, well I guess we just disagree on this. No surprise there. One of the reasons for the loss was that Gonzaga shot a lot more free throws and got called for fewer fouls. That was the agenda the officials had. It happens with regularity when the game is important. It happened to St. Marys early in the championship game and they were not able to recover. Notice that I said recover, not adjust. Your inability to see the favoritism given to Gonzaga is hilarious, but you do it all the time with the nba so it is not surprising.
I guess Stephen Curry just didn’t have the talent to adjust against Cleveland in the finals and that is why he fouled out in the critical game and why Lebron was allowed to travel and foul at will… 
Curry didn’t have the physical ability to adjust do to the knee injury. If you haven’t had a knee injury you wouldn’t know what it feels like even if all indications are it is well. The last part of the game, Curry couldn’t even get around and past a big slug defender, Mr. Love. Thompson was blanketed and ineffective. GS lost because Cleveland was a little bit better over a 7 game series.
As far as GU and BYU, we fouled them more. Looking through blue goggles you see referee bias. Take them off. Our bigs were nowhere as talented as GU. Having Mika and others this year will make a difference.
Looking through thick, black goggles you see nothing. 
Once again, you are missing the point. Where were those “talented bigs” for Gonzaga the time BYU beat them? Nate Austin blocked Wiltjer’s shot to end the game and BYU escaped the referee bias to win a relatively unimportant game and it made fans like you believe BYU had a chance in the tournament. When it mattered, the way the game was called favored Gonzaga, just like it always does when it matters. You say there will be a difference this year (the famous “wait until next year” chant) and I say that it will be business as usual. When the game is important and there is something at stake, the game will be called favorably for Gonzaga. 22 straight years says it is so… not every single time as Gonzaga is also a great program that wins the wcc on their own accord too, but when another team in the league competes for that top spot, they are forced to play beyond what might be expected to beat Gonzaga when it matters. It isn’t blue googles all of the time, I’ve seen it happen to Santa Clara a few years ago, St. Mary’s and Pepperdine once. I know what I see, your thick, black goggles simply can’t cloud my vision. 
He only had one foul in that game, as did Wiltjer. No reason for the officials to jeopardize Gonzaga’s ncaa tournament streak by being objective… and yes, I realize you clarified this in a recent post.
This is where grasshopper gets confused and claims I am stating things that are not clear. I have been very clear in my comments. It is my assertion that somtimes the players cannot adjust in a specific game because the refs do NOT call the game the same way on both ends of the court. In the game that mattered, the Gonzaga bigs were allowed to play a game that benefitted them and thus helped them to the tournament final and another ncaa berth. I believe BYU can win in the WCC but it is going to take a lot more than they believe it will. I’ll bet that Rose is aware of what I speak of and he has strategized to combat it. The strategy just hasn’t worked because of the things I have talked about. How many times over the course of the last 5 wcc seasons have BYU’s big men gotten into early foul trouble because of the way the refs start the game? Do they stay consistent in the cheap, ticky tack calls they make throughout the game? No, they don’t… they are terribly inconsistent. The grasshopper doesn’t understand this though.
EXACTLY GLENN !!! Grasshopper will have no response to your comments here. It is exactly what I was saying and you seemed to understand it PERFECTLY. Grasshopper never does because he… well… just doesn’t get it. Thank you for getting it, for understanding what I am talking about and for recognizing that this is what typically happens when the game has significance or meaning, ie. winner continues on, winner gets a ncaa berth, winner likely wins the wcc tournament or league title. EXACTLY !!!
Looking back when Mika first year starter. He would get fouled early during wcc games. During November & December he did fine. Sometime after halfway in conference Dave Rose would put Nate Austin or Isaac Nielsen as a starter and wait when the time was right to put Mika in. We lost two to GU out of 3 tries but did win on the 2nd game @MC when Dave didn’t start Mika, I believe, but the final didn’t matter because GU had 7 players on the floor. I wonder if Dave Rose going get Alan Hamson (will he play) or 8’s to start if Mika start getting foul early during wcc again. I know SG going to tell us we need to play smart. “Whatever you say”.
However, I did respond eloquently and accurately.