If you missed it, this weekend BC beat the #11 team in the country; Jordan Chatman, who Dave Rose didn’t think was good enough to get minutes over TJ Haws or Nick Emery or Seljaas, managed to be one of the stars of the game with 17 points on 5-7 3pt shooting. Chatman averages over 13ppg in the best conference in the country, being guarded by the best players in the country, who are coached by the best coaches in the country. Yet DR thought he couldn’t make it at BYU. So pathetic. Jordan Chatman is the rare “find” for BYU–ACC talent level, no HC issues, straight A student, great pedigree, and supportive family. He is also long, athletic, fast, and a GREAT outside shooter. You know, everything BYU basketball is not. So, so sad.
And just to rub it in Rose’s face, Jake Toolson, who DR also thought was not good enough for BYU, is shooting something like 48% from deep this year–in a better league than the WCC. While BYU keeps throwing up pure bricks from outside. If I sound frustrated, it’s because I am. Losing Chatman should have been a fireable offense for DR.
Interesting comments. For the most part they mirror the general consensus here on courgarfan. One guy posted a comment that I thought was spot on, saying that the fans are smart. I think there are lots of really smart basketball fans–like the people who post on this board. Some guys on this board have a lot of coaching, playing, or officiating experience. Others have been astute observers of the game for many years. We have differing opinions, surely, but collectively we are smart nonetheless. So if we have 100 smart fans and 95 think the HC is blowing it, I think it’s ok to just say the HC is blowing it. Coaches are certainly not infallible just because they hold the job–look at all the millionaire coaches who get fired every year. BYU’s record the last few years–playing in one of the least competitive conferences in D1–says that BYU basketball is bad and getting worse. I don’t think anyone can argue that the best D1 teams are the ones filled with big, strong, rangy guys who can shoot, play above the rim, or both. We have way too many guys now who can’t shoot and play very close to the ground. So when we run off guys with physical talent, it makes those 95% of the smart guys think it’s time for a different direction. I think we need a new coach, new blood so to speak; but that said, DR is not solely at fault, because Holmoe should pay part of the price for leaving us stuck in the Rec League where many good recruits just don’t want to play. I am actually super happy for Chatman, because he is experiencing ACC basketball instead of half empty glorified high school gyms, but it’s still a cryin’ shame we lost him, and it 100% did not have to happen.
Chatman is a class act and always has been. FB4 was a class act and a very athletic bb player. Both of these players would have stayed and excelled under Mark Pope. That’s my belief-players like to play for Pope. Childs is a super talent, but I think he is playing for his NBA resume and it’s hard to fault him, with the deterioration of the program. Watch Gonzaga-they have probably 5 guys that will get a shot in the NBA. But they play for their team and that will take care of their resumes. Not even Gonzaga matches up with the talent in the ACC and teams like Kentucky and Kansas. They have become the West powerhouse with good athletes, good coaching and good team work
Yeah, but Jashire has nothing to say about it. It’s up to his physical therapist and doctor… and coach. Come on, get real. This has always been about giving Emery more minutes hoping he would do something with it and show some signs of improvement. That has not happened and it has created problems moving forward.
I guess they need to start talking about the mythical hand injury and how it is improving and how it will be so good to get him back. This seems like more of a pride issue and making sure JH knows his place. Likewise, there is a game tomorrow and we are only hearing now that he may be back next week? A game tomorrow and then another next Thursday… that must have been a doozy of an injury, though no one actually saw it.
I know this is late to the party, but i just caught up on the board after a couple of tough weeks. I read all the time but don’t post much anymore. However, i felt a need to chip in on Chapman. I think his case is different than, say Dastrup or FB4. DR did play him quite a bit and he was in the plan for the future, but he was graduating very early, like as a sophomore, and wanted to go to law school, but BYU wouldn’t let him play BBall while attending law school. BC would, so he transferred and then decided to change from law to MBA. Not really fair to put that one on DR.
Bob: I read this board pretty closely and I don’t remember anyone confirming the Law School thing at BYU. In other words, I’m not sure Chatman ever gave BYU that ultimatum. Chatman never ended up in Law School. He enrolled in an MBA Program at BC. Others on this board may know more.
Chatman played, but he was never really in the mix with Rose. Not with LP3 as the future at BYU. Ironically he was a better athlete and defensive player than Haws or Emery and his shooting in the best league in the country has been outstanding. Much the same situation as FB4 who was also a great athlete and was an outstanding scorer in Louisiana who left because of “homesickness”. This is not a knock on Haws at all, but BYU could certainly used the talent and athleticism they could have brought to the table, just as they could have used Dastrup who was underutilized by Rose and transferred to Oregon State
While I agree with your assessment, I do have insight from players and coaches. Chatman would be here today if Rose would have played him more and not shoved the whole LP3 thing up his snoot. His father, Jeff, was the biggest fan and recruiter but soured after seeing how his child was not getting a fair shake. So I do place it squarely on Dave Rose. In the same vain that I place Dastrup transferring for not getting time ahead of a Worthington
… or a Baxter, who if you have read anything I have posted for upwards to 3 years now, is a rare talent and SAT while we had to suffer through a half a season of games until Rose finally discovers that Baxter can win games for us. Worthington has never been more then a foul machine and none of us get it.
Or could it be the other way around like. Worthington still hasn’t develop that DR thought he could and knowing Luke not playing any pro basketball (not nba) and wanted to stay at BYU to grad school and be a grad assistant coach.
I am still waiting for Colby Lee to develop - should DR slow down even more for him too, like DR did for Baxter?
I never was a big Colby Lee guy. When he was first offered, I think I said, “His highlights look like he is floor challenged like Worthington, Big so he can’t be moved but can’t shoot a lick”. He rebounds well and hustles but not a go to guy.
I am generally in the same camp as the Larimer brothers and fish. I think the LP3 debacle set the program back a lot. It is going to take some time to get it back to where it was in the Jimmer and pre-Jimmer days.
Not only did a lot of players sour on BYU because of the LP3, we are still seeing the remnants of it today. The odd thing is that this bizarre fascination of Rose with guys like Worthington is still costing us wins and potential high level players coming to BYU. It is lazy recruiting and not taking good care of the quality players who choose to come here.
All I remember that Lee was one of those 3 players (Harding, Baxter & Lee) were a good get according to Dave Rose. In HS in Idaho he average some 16 pts pgm and some 9 reb pgm. If you see him as a mirror of Luke W. and yeah I don’t want to see that. But maybe not now through this year wcc. But next year I like to see how he develop anyway.
If you look at BYU from the standpoint that the Marriott, the new practice facility, our games are on ESPN every week, our national brand, then you would have to say that Coach Rose is WAY under performing. 20 win seasons with the talent we have, in the WCC…even a average coach would achieve. You could get anybody and get similar results.
Then there is recruiting. With a worldwide net, we are recruiting like we were USU or UVU. When programs like Gonzaga are getting guys from everywhere, what does Few have that we don’t have?? Not a thing except Few is elite, I know because we fish together. His entire mentality is to use the pre season games to find out his talent, then the entire season he develops young guys for the POST SEASON.
Rose was good until his cancer then he coasted, we need new blood. Pope is hungry but Holmoe gives Rose an extention (without any reason) so we are stuck. Baxter and to some extent, Emery, is saving BYU from a losing season. We will lose a couple games on the road this week just because Rose did not develop that new talent…hope I am wrong big time.
Would love to see that to happen but Coach Few would not put up with this HC and high academic entry. Fly fishing here in Utah is good too at both places in Provo River and Strawberry Reservoir. But I am sure he fish here before. Spokane is 1,800 feet elevation and not too far a drive to higher mountain in Idaho and Montana is a lot better there.
Yeah, those early brutal schedule really hurt when comes to injuries and not enough time to recover to take care of those lesser games to finish the season. Last year our freshman players did very well.
When comes to 2023 - 2025 we don’t know if realignment will ever happen. Maybe BYU will end up with AAC or create a new Tier 2 Div 1 League when taking those leftover Little 10 of Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Kansas, K State, Iowa State and WV to Tier 2. Anyway, it is a long time to come if something will ever happen or change in the league structure.
Yes Dave Rose need to step away soon. Mark Pope was given an extension at UVU last year but still don’t understand why Tom Holmoe gave an extension to DR. Maybe a buy out might happen for Mark Pope to get him at BYU or maybe Tom found someone might be better for men’s basketball.