All sports, collegiate and pro, are replete, throughout history, with athletes who played hurt. If you have the heart, you think you are the best, even if you are injured. It is the coaching staff’s decision and responsibility to insist, “you are too injured to provide the team the best opportunity for success now, so get your butt into the showers.” Would it be great for a 19 to 24 year old to have the maturity to be wise enough to hand the reigns over to someone else - yes. How many young people are that wise, particularly young people who are raised not just on competition but the extra competition of starring in HS and then playing at D1 level. And finally, who was in charge of the darn team, Bronco or R Nelson? I really don’t get the vitriol for Nelson, really don’t. If you don’t like him, ok. But let it go man. I think we now have a man, Sitake, who will, in conjunction with his assistants take charge of the program and will not play a guy whose injuries overcome his ability, whatever that ability is.
It all stems from that time I saw him walking through the Wilk with a BYU lettermen’s jacket on… he just came across very smug, like the big man on campus at high school, and it rubbed me the wrong way. In the worst way I wanted to be wrong. I tried to convince myself that first impressions are never right… but the way he played the game, the locks flowing out of the helmet, the key miscues and screw ups that made the difference in BYU having a good year as opposed to a great year were just too much for me to overcome.
If you can’t tell, I despise smugness and the me first mentality. It flies in the face of everything that is right and good.
Ok Jim, wherever you are with this, then fine. One last comment from me. I don’t know any athletes worth their salt on the playing field who are not “smug.” Some are better than others at not showing it in public. All the great Cougar QBs and other competitive athletes are “smug,” because they have to have that smugness to achiever on the field against other decently talented teammates and opponents. I had it when I wrestled in High School. I wasn’t a punk about it but I was smug. Knew I could whip anyone’s rear end, even after I lost matches. I got nothing else about this, so you got the last word.
Yes. Lark should have had an opportunity to play. He was a top recruit who wasted away on the bench for 5 years, only to finally get a shot–in a bowl game of all places–and proved that he was perhaps better than the starter all along.
I supposed I’ll never understand all the comments about how BYU Coaches ruined Jake Heaps because I simply do not believe it. Since when has a good football player every emerged that was otherwise a dainty little flower that required love, sunshine and happy thoughts else he was not able to play the game? Best I can tell, everyone was in favor of Jake Heaps being exceptional, elite, and amazingly successful. As a freshman he did pretty good against poor teams. As a sophomore he played bad and kept getting worse. I hang the Texas loss directly on his shoulders. His play at Utah was…well very poor in my eyes. Did he wilt like a flower in the sun then quit, cut and run because the coaches did not appreciate his poor and uninspired play? Should they have given him a participation trophy and told him he was nothing but awesome even when Uncle Rico could have beaten Texas?
If he were ever to be a good footballer at a higher than HS level, he needed to work harder, show up early, stay late, and pull himself up by his bootstraps every time things didn’t go his way. I did not see that. In fact no one I know saw that. The team was totally de-energized by that (though they should have had more heart themselves). Nelson tied very hard and gave all he had, perhaps too much. You cannot say he did not leave it all on the field. The team, the coaches, and many of the fans appreciated that. We rather loose with someone giving it their all instead of a gifted athlete totally underperforming his gifts and seemingly not bothered much by it. I say seemingly because I do not know of anything he did to try and turn things around other than talk about it. Nelson tried, bled, and broke with his effort. Sometimes he was good. Sometimes he was inspiring. Other times not so much. I can totally understand why the coaches got behind the guy giving it his all instead of the guy who seemed overwhelmed by the speed and complexity of the college game.
Jake was young. Perhaps never faced much adversity. He got married young and by all reports his folks were helicopters in the worst way. I understand he got away from Provo not only because HE screwed up his opportunity but to get away from the helicopters. He needed a new start. I had hoped he would take the new opportunity, pull himself together and showcase those talents but alas he earned his way back to the pine by his own hand. He then went to Miami and could’t even beat out an inconsistent freshman flash in the pan. I am glad he was good enough to get some pre-season practice time in the NFL. It seems he was always much better in practice or auditioning than in real games, since HS. I wish him well but Jake was not damaged by anyone at BYU. Jake was and is responsible for Jake. He met with greater resistance and his perceived capability was greater than his actual capability.
Why no Lark or Munns? Don’t know nor understand. Were they not that good in practice? Did they have attitude or say things that put off the coaches? Again, I don’t know. From my all knowing arm chair I sure wish they got some meaningful game time because as much as I appreciated Nelson’s effort, I would have appreciated winning more. We will never know but it seemed Lark or Munns may have afforded a better chance at winning.
Well, here is my last word, actually it is a name…
Ty Detmer
If there is one person out there who can honestly say that the Heisman trophy winning QB and current OC is “smug” in any way shape or form then I will forever rest my comments on the subject. I think Tom’s comment above adds fuel to my fire… I never took Lark to be smug in the least either. There are others… I don’t think Ziggy Ansah is the least bit smug. I don’t think Robbie Bosco is either.
Why didn’t the coaches ever get behind Lark or Munns? We finally saw what Lark was capable of but never got that opportunity with Munns. So was it Lark’s fault he never got an opportunity? or was it Munns fault? If it was Heaps fault that he was so bad and Nelson’s that he was so good (at trying so hard…) why are the coaches never held accountable? Anae repeatedly pulled the rug out from under Heaps whenever he showed promise or potential. He reigned him back in over and over… yeah, Jake quit too easy and didn’t work hard enough but who really knows what the dynamic in the locker room and with the OC was? I certainly don’t.
Not sure how you can know this Gary… I’m not saying he was, but I don’t know how anyone can say he wasn’t. I had more than my share of bad experiences at BYU… things that could have changed the course of my life if I had let them… I was a returned missionary… not an 18 year old fresh out of high school. I was able to get past it. Some people don’t.
I don’t understand this comment… how do you know so much about Heaps situation yet know nothing about Lark or Munns? and what about Nelson? Do you know about him or not? I am not singing the praises of Jake Heaps because I don’t know what happened. I am done criticizing Nelson… too many fans see him as one of the better qb’s to play at BYU and I won’t argue that point anymore.
Jim, glad we can have a debate. Please do not take offense as I don’t mean it that way - ok?
Jake was given the keys to the kingdom on a silver platter. His performance on the field was the #1 reason he got benched. That is a common sports occurrence. If a player cannot tolerate than then I believe there is little chance that player will amount to much at higher levels. I guess if we blame BYU for destroying Jake then Kansas and Miami as to be similarly guilty, no? The general belief that Jake seemed to play w/o heart and de-movatied his team…that is not something I can blame the coaches for either. I think Jake was the captain of that ship. I guess I believe in personal responsibility, especially in sports.
We had 2+ years to hear about and watch Jake, hear his press conferences, see his play, read the 100s of articles and then see him turn tail and run. That was a lot of data from which to form an opinion. We did not have a hundredth part of that with Lark and Munns thus much more difficult to understand them and their circumstances. Much less data from which to form an opinion. Hence I acknowledge I don’t know why some supposedly good talent did not get their due. They both seemed to have talent but I really didn’t see it. I had my rose colored glasses on for the bowl game but in truth Lark was not that good in the game…but he looked like he could have been with some seasoning. We never got to see Lark or Munns be QB superheros so I can’t give them that status. Maybe they would have been if they got to start for a year. Alas, we will never know. We can only speculate.
Nelson? I got to see him play up close and in person a few times. I saw a kid giving it his all. I saw him whip a GT team in Atlanta. I saw him beat a Tulsa team in Dallas with guts an precision mixed with chaos and poor decision making. When I talked with him after the game I saw a grateful, humble, and excited kid. I do wish he would have benched himself when his injured play was less than stellar and it was hurting the team. This is where I am very critical of the coaches. They had much better insight on his physical condition and they saw his play. Why didn’t they pull him?. In my perfect arm chair position it was clear they needed to give others a chance. But why didn’t they? Where they fooled? Did they not invest and teach the other guys and thus they thought they would play worse? In my paradigm you play who is going to give you the best shot at winning. When Nelson was hurt I think it was clear, the answer was not Riley yet they persisted. Was it pride? Where they too close to the person and the game to see it? I don’t know. I don’t think they were evil with ill intent to torpedo the team yet is seemed illogical in my paradigm.
You have asserted Anae yanked Heaps whenever he showed potential or promise. Sorry but I have zero recollection of that. I really Jake stinking it up and playing like milk toast and getting pulled. I never saw him leading the team to victory and get benched for it. I watched Jake very intently the few times he went in for an injured Nelson…I watched his eyes best I could. I watched his body language. I observed his play. I was looking for something special…some fire, some fight and some execution. Sadly I saw little of what I had hoped to see.
Whatever was going on inside Jake Heaps…marriage, immaturity, classes, helicopter parents moving to town and constantly on his back then getting a divorce, adversity, etc…whatever it was did not become is rally cry. It did not cause him to dig deep to overcome. It appeared he threw in the towel and looked for a place to start again and when the story repeated he looked for another fresh start. Again, I have said it a hundred times but let me say it again, even though he deeply disappointed me I wish him nothing but the best. Thousands and thousands have tremendous talent but for one reason or another cannot translate it to the college or pro game. Far more do not make it than do.
I don’t think I have said this out loud before but I blame Jake for the Nelson era. Yep. If Jake played as good or better than the last half of his freshman season he would have seen more success and Nelson would not have seen the field. If Jake would have taken the benching and kicked his butt in gear perhaps he would have won the starting job back. Sadly our #1, 5 star guy, blew it and we got Mr. Grit instead.
Lastly, I do think Bronco and Anae have had trouble with the game plan, teaching, recruiting, adjusting, and playing the best players on the team in my humble and imperfect arm chair position. I think they have most obviously screwed up with the QB position. Maybe other positions too but those are less obvious. They did what they could and we had lots of winning seasons. I have it on good authority that fully half the teams do not have winning seasons. I thank them for their efforts but am glad they are gone. No one ever responded to or took the bait when I said on many occasions we should have taken up a fund to send Bronco to SEC Coaches Summer Camp. I saw lots of coaching blunders and often grieved over the play calling. I spent and lot of money and emotional capital to go to many games only find my way back home after a stinging loss that should not have been.
Well, to the future. I am optimistic. Plenty of challenges and growing experiences ahead but I like who we have on the field and on the sidelines. I hope I can be patient and give them a fair shake to get it together. I hope Tanner and Taysom play some amazing ball. I don’t know how that will work but I hope for it nonetheless.
Please excuse the typos and missed autocorrect errors. I know they are there but can’t see them at the moment.
No problem and absolutely no offense taken. I am okay with what you said. I hadn’t realized that you had spoken to Nelson after a game. I wasn’t there obviously, but I can imagine the effect that it had on you and your opinion of him. I did not see the grateful, humble and excited kid the time I saw him on campus. I saw cockiness, arrogance and Big man on campus wearing his letterman’s jacket Riley Nelson. Maybe there is more than one of him, but you talked with him and I only observed him. He was loud and drew attention to himself. He seemed to want everyone to know he was there…
and that followed up with what I saw on the field. I saw someone who wanted to be Ty Detmer, Robbie Bosco, Jim McMahon and would stop at nothing to be that. In a way that was good, but in the way I had seen him earlier, it appeared not so good.
Now having said that, you made several points about Heaps that are important to note… divorced helicopter parents was the biggest. That is tough on an 18 year old kid. Nelson was not a “kid”. He was a returned missionary and much more mature. Why the long hair? why the loud, look at me attitude in the middle of the Cougar eat walkway? Heaps never grew up, maybe never understood what it took to grow up. What was Nelson’s excuse for his behavior? We all see different things… I tend to feel compassion for the insecure arrogance and personal struggles of a guy like Jake Heaps. Did Riley Nelson deal with the same type of stuff? I don’t think so… he came from a wealthy home grown in state football champion family… who did you think would get behind him? Utahn’s don’t take well to outsiders… or those who don’t fit their idea of what a good mormon should be a lot of the time. It is complicated, moreso than we realize. I will take your perspective and make it mine. I will try to see the person you saw and forget the Nelson I remember.
I’m okay with that.
I have no idea what Nelson was like in the Cougar Eat or how wearing a jacket impacted his behavior. I am sure we both only had snipers of who he was/is. I can’t fault him for trying to be all he can be. Unfortunately he was not the total package on the field like Taysom might be. As mentioned before I wish he would have, for the good of the team, stepped back when his injuries were impacting his game. Of course, that is where the coaches should have…well coached. Again, one of the problems I had with BM and RA.
Jake…I have never been in his shoes either. Divorce, adversity, sure. It is hard stuff. Seemed to be like he was trying to jump from kid to man in one leap. Sorry that the #1 QB that we hoped he would be just did not have it in him. I think the coaches wanted him to be very, very good also but after time realized there was a problem and were ineffective at helping him. Unfortunately several other coaches fared no better.
Well, the saga is over. Jake and Riley have moved on. Perhaps we should also. Glad that BM and RA have moved on too.
I am projecting much goodness on Sitaki and Detmer. I think they understand the game, the clock, the need for adjustment, and the objectives better. In time we shall see. I doubt we will have any more punts when inside the 35 of the other teams end zone. I doubt we will go for two when we scored only one touchdown all game and our defense had the other team on their heels. I doubt third and long will be a dive play on a regular basis. I doubt there will be more time talking to the team than actually practicing. I know we have a good receivers coach. I hope we have a great O-Line coach…this sets up everything else for success and this is a great unknown to me. I hope our new DB coach can teach and inspire success. I hope Tanner and Taysom have amazing years and both end up in the NFL as starters.
When Heaps got married his attitude about self preservation totally changed, he went conservative in almost all of his play. I have to include the wife in this one. She was worried about him getting hurt. He was a great player with potential but did not have the right coach. Priorities change as life changes. I hate to say it but Tanner could face the same inner conflict. That is the possibility. Tanner does have the right coach. Don’t think it will happen.
Jeff
you are joking I hope. Let’s see, Heaps serves no mission, does not put in the work in the off season. Comes in and assumes that all these RM’s will follow him into battle. (the mission is irrelevant) but my point is that leadership is earned, not given.
Tanner has earned every little scrap he has gotten in life. He served others first. He put in the time before the mission by red shirting here a year. He worked every day after the mission and was ready to lead when Hill went down and now he will be FULLY ready with a year under his belt and the mission rust gone.
To mention Heaps in the same sentence with Mangum is heresy.
“To mention Heaps in the same sentence with Mangum is heresy.” Agree!
I see apples and oranges being compared to each other. Both are excellent. One is better with cheese and the other is better for thirst. Both are very healthy for you. There is no need to give up one for the other. Who can really say that one is better for you than the other,
Pro style pocket passer with superior accuracy or Steve Young style dual threat, with the best running skills. Which is best. They are both great. Why does one have to be better than the other? Use them both to each of their own skill sets.
Jim, I agree with you.
It goes back to the point that Bronco did not really like or appreciate anyone, or respect anyone with more than 3 stars.
This alone, could cause a 4-5 player to lose confidence in himself; question why he chose our University? Wonder what might have happened in his career in another University, and generally sour himself into a negative attitude. Bronco appeared not to like players, or coaches (Cahoon), better than himself.
It’s called the law of the lid. You feel comfortable with those at your level and below. BM had to become a better coach to feel good and comfortable with 4 and 5 star players. Other than that, he still did fine job in the whole with the players and the purpose about BYU.
Thank you grasshopper.
I agree of your ,( law of the lid). You feel comfortable with those at your level or below.
I agree with you that Bronco had to become a better coach to feel good and comfortable with 4 and 5 star players, and I might add that as the picture on the wall became more and more apparent that we needed to go after those 4-5 star players, and Bronco realized that he had already hit his own ceiling and could not handle the next level, he left us for a school, (yes in the P5 conference of #87 in the nation with a 4-8 season in 2015, Virginia where he still had some wiggle room before hitting, once again, his ceiling.
I do thank Bronco and all of those (7) that followed him to Virginia, and I do thank the University of Virginia for the opportunity of accumulating the great staff that we now have, two of which are hall of famers, two of which have 14 years of experience in professional football, and one of which is a Heisman Trophy winner. Also, already, with the great coaching staff that he was able to acquire in a short period of time, and with four 4star players that he was able to get,
and with bringing us back the OC coordinator, the hall of famer, the 14 year QB veteran of the NFL, Ty Detmer. BM tried but failed. This coaching staff that we now have seems to have no ceiling while the outgoing coaching staff all have bruises on the top of their heads.