KC makes history and LMU

Come on now, we all saw this one coming. KC is amazing at what he does .I was very disappointed that there was no mention of his accomplishments with he tied the record at 4 but I hope he gets plenty of hype now that he has the record. What he has done and a year removed from knee reconstruction is astounding. I want to see him on Sports Center, Rome…everywhere.

As for the shakeup at starting roles, I kind of like it, now granted, this was LMU and they are only a glorified HS team but Sharp gets 7 rebounds and he will go hard at the rim if he gets a chance which is non existent among our bigs.

I am mystified at why Neilson and Andrus get so little time in the game when they are the two with the best scoring abilities down low.

Individual accomplishments are fine, but it’s a team game. The team isn’t going anywhere or doing anything that warrants the coverage you desire. It’s a great personal achievement for him, but it’s only a great story if byu as a team makes the ncaa tournament. That’s a long shot right now.

Being the best player on an average team isn’t something the media is drawn to, nor fans outside of byu existing fan base.

That’s even more of a feat to set this kind of record on a supposed average team.

Worthington makes a layup, something Kaufusi and Neilsen struggle with and then he’s benched. This was a team Andrus could have scored on.

I like mixing things up with this group. Sharp can give us some rebounding we often lack. I also think at this point, let others play who will be playing next year more. Haws has to play because we still need to win games. But play Bartley and others.

Actually, it’s not. Lesser talent around him means more opportunities for him. If there were talented big men, less rebounds. If there were talented PG, less assists. The fact that he feels he has to do so much speaks to the talent around him.

You are right. I’m not taking anything away from Collingsworth, but all of those things are true. Somebody who is not a BYU fan said something to me today about Collingsworth and his accomplishment as well as Haws and asked me how I thought they would do as NBA players.

I was honest and told him I don’t think either one of them is NBA material. I was wrong about Davies but not that far off as he is in Europe now. I think both can play elsewhere but there are too many missing parts to their respective games to make it in the NBA. It is nothing personal at all, they have been fantastic but only 50 or so make it every year in the NBA and the odds are against it.

With lesser talent, lesser possibilities for assists. Lesser opportunities for scoring because teams would double team him. He has scoring opportunities if defenses have to guard talented shooting guards. Less talented teammates for rebounding means defenses and offenses would block him out more. So, a more talented team gives him more opportunities for a triple double

So you fall in the camp of thining he is the greatest Cougar of all time since if he had a better team his numbers would be even better? Gotcha. I just don’t believe it. He is out Tracy McGrady, on a average team puts up stats but not wins, and on a good team is invisible. Not saying he would be invisible on a good team, but he would not need to do all he needs to do to keep this team comoetative, and it’s being done against a WCC schedule to boot. Not world beaters by any stretch.

The bottom line is that he has a great all around game and is deserving of the recognition regardless of the factors and circumstances that have allowed him to accomplish it.

There are lot of former college players that could have done the same thing and haven’t. It is an impressive accomplishment, regardless of the league, level of play, teammates, etc. that a detractor might point out.

That’s probably the best place to leave it.

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This thread is about Collinsworth and what he has done and like so many threads on Cougarfan, they twist back to why the team is not succeeding. It is unfortuitous as both Haws and KC, if they had a team with one solid inside post player, would be the talk of a national platform, they both would be on sports center and BYU would be highly ranked.

The 5 triple doubles that KC is up to is historic and pains me to see someone disparage what KC has accomplished by being trivial and saying, “well, its all about the one and not the team”…An assist is the purest form of team play, a rebound has nothing to do with a me first attitude so with only 1 of the 3 components to the triple double being a ME components, I don’t know what the hell some of you guys a talking about. If you asked anyone on BYU’s team if it was a team effort, they would all look you in the eye and say it was a team effort.

Bottom line-it’s an NCAA record which nobody has done before on good, bad, or average teams. Enough said-it stands alone. KC has another year at BYU to get better so put off the NBA thoughts till after next year. Remember what a lousy FT shooter he was last year? Improved greatly this year! No I don’t think Haws is physically capable at this point in time to make the NBA, but that’s just a guess. I saw Stockton from the Zags made it and I would have bet my house against that one! BYU struggled because of an inexperienced front line-end of story-with a decent front line, everyone else becomes better-I won’t even go into the coaching aspect-I know guys don’t believe that anyway. Congrats KC soon you will hold the record for most in a college career!

I am somewhat guilty of the notion that it is all about the individual instead of the team. Please let me clarify what I mean in the context of what I said. I have also mentioned that I think KC is totally deserving of all the recognition available for this accomplishment, regardless of how well the team is doing or the myriad problems they seem to continue to have.

My real issue and perhaps it is just my perception is that the “record breakings” of both KC and Haws have seemed to distract or defocus the other problems that the team and program are dealing with. I saw this coming and I knew these two would break these records (well, TH is still in the process, but will eventually do it). I can’t say for sure if this is having a significant effect on the poor team performance overall but I do believe it is part of the problem. That is what I was trying to point out.

One reason I say this is from personal experience with my own son’s former varsity team. Last year he played varsity as a junior and chose not to play this year because of significant conflicts with the coach. He is friends with most of the kids on the team though he isn’t playing. He is not the only good player who has chosen this route and there have been 2 boys that started the season on the varsity team that have since quit for the same reasons. This coach is a player worshipper, among the other issues, and told one of his players that he was sure he would break the single game 3 point record his brother set in a game last year (10). At the start of this season this kid was launching 20-25 shots a game and the team suffered. They have had a mediocre season thus far as it nears the end and this is one of the primary reasons, along with the fact that none of the kids knows his role on the team. When this kid pares it back and plays like a teammate, the team is more successful overall.

Does that make sense?

Maybe I’m wrong but I have seen this at every level of the game and it is an observable fact. When the focus is on one or two players, the team suffers overall. It worked okay with Jimmer because BYU had players who contributed inside, etc. Unfortunately this current team has no such balance.

It is not a personal conviction against these two great players, it is more a criticism of the system and how it hasn’t been developed effectively.

I think you hit it right. I still play the game at 57 and we are much better this year than last year all because we had a great player who did not pass. The ball would get in his hands and he would try to finish. This year we are many average to good players who pass 3-5 times per shot. Now we are beating teams with far better players but we are not wasting possessions and are getting wide open shots almost every time.

Does Haws take some poor shots? I complain about it all the time but who would I want taking the shot with the game on the line? Haws. And the same could be said about KC’s decision making in pretty much every game but again, who’s hands would I have the ball in during the game? KC or Halford.

Will Haws make it in the NBA…I’m on the fence as they need shooters and Haws is a pure shooter but he plays no defense (the same knock on Jimmer) I hope he can make it. KC, in my opinion has the best chance of making it in the NBA (Jason Kidd had not shot when he came to the league and developed a solid 3 in later years) John Stockton had no shot either but he is by far a better floor general then KC will ever be so I hope he makes it but would not be surprised if he was cashed away in a D league for a few years

I think most people get what your are saying and how many super star players do you see that their teams never seem to make it to the top of the heap. Carmelo Anthony as an example. Yet others, like Michael Jordan always seemed to be winning because even though they are super stars they understand that the team wins the championship. As good as Haws and KC are, I’m really not that sure I want them taking the last do or die shot anyway. I’d almost rather Winder or Fischer take a wide open shot than than Haws with two guys in his face. That’s when you have to be the team guy and decide what gives your team the best chance to win.