Polygamy being decriminalized in Utah?

Do we have any statements by Joseph Smith or Brigham Young that would indicate the decision was “Thus sayeth the Lord?”
The only thing that leads me to believe it was given by Commandment is that it took a revelation to President Kimball to make the change. So, it’s a possibility it was given as a Commandment. Other than the OT restrictions if everyone but Levites could not hold the Priesthood, that’s all we have doctrinally.

I would basically conclude that revelation given through a prophet becomes doctrine and doctrine does change or mutate according to needs or the state of the Saints otherwise you would have to conclude that polygamy was policy during JS era . I find it interesting that the banning of polygamy ran hand in hand for the political future of Utah as it was continually practiced for a time after it’s abolition. Much in the manner that Presidents of the church continued to imbibe coffee and tea until Joseph F Smith reinforced the Brigham Young admonition. I find interesting how happenings are blown out of proportion, such as the Sweetwater rescue, which was so eloquently portrayed by Gordon B Hinkley and later proven to be a gross exaggeration by BYU investigations. I appreciate your response and I would hazard a guess that the supposed doctrine of the WOW will eventually mutate as we gain more knowledge and understand more, such as the effects of sugarized soft drinks as compared to the medicinal properties of green tea. As diabetes becomes a pandemic in the Western world and people are getting hysterical about the coronavirus, I just shake my head and try to see the logic. Anyway I appreciate your efforts-thanks

You seem assured about the brethren still drinking coffee and tea after BY gave the WOW as a Commandment. Do you have proof? Letters, texts, emails … :joy:

Of course but all of my findings are done by research and it would seem inappropriate to deny you the opportunity of discovery through your own efforts-don’t be a lazy student

LOL! Really now. I would have to go to anti-Mormon sites I’m sure. How about just sharing your insights.

No Scott, as illiterate as you might be, you can go to the BYU studies history of the word of wisdom archives

Now who is the name caller…I’ve been nice in my responses and you do this.

Sounds logical Scott, but I have not seen anything that BY actually declared it a revelation. When the church decided to be more open about itself, the first presidency went in the First Presidency Vault (up cottonwood canyon) and looked through all of BY artifacts and did not find any documentation that it was done by Revelation.

I do find that some things are done in our church because of tradition, not doctrinal or policy (the temple is a great example of people doing things because of tradition, not doctrine).

Because of the current state of affairs of the union at the time. During the 1850’s BY was trying to get us in the union, during that same time, the government had a policy equal balance between slave and non slave states.

Personally, I think it was politically motivated, to appease the southern converts who were bringing slaves with them to Utah. BUT I have no proof of this, just my own theory.

Scott, here are some Pro Mormon sites you can research:

This one should help you understand the process of how the Word of Wisdom became a commandment:
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Word_of_Wisdom

Fair Mormon is a great site made up by a lot of LDS scholars.

Actually, Doctrine does change based on circumstances, look in the Old and New Testament as examples of change. You can also look at several instances within the church history of changes to the doctrine.

Polygamy was done as a doctrine, because in Joseph’s own words “All things must be restored”. There are some very good historical articles about the whole process of how that commandment came to be.

Only about 10% of the church members were permitted to practice plural marriage, the main reason for the practice was stated by BY that we needed to take care of the widows and orphans who husbands had either quit the church or were “martyr’d” for the cause.

Another “doctrinal” change recently is within the Temple. The ordinances have changed from the days of Joseph Smith. I won’t go into it for obvious reasons, but there has been some doctrinal changes made starting with President Hinckley and more recently President Nelson.

If you notice President Hinckley comments on WOW, he started using the phrase “If there is ANYTHING that is addicting (Pop, alcohol, eating, etc.) it is to be avoided”

Way back in the day of early dial-up internet I took a Utah history course at BYU. In it, the professor had us read a quote from Brigham Young. I wish I still had it. In essence it was him saying that he enjoyed sitting and enjoying a cup of coffee and that some Saints went too far with the word of wisdom and judging others. He liked his coffee and didn’t like being judged.

In the course we had to pick a topic for a term paper. I had long been interested in crime and how it was dealt with by different groups of people so I did mine on crime in early Utah. Going through Microfiche, I stumbled upon an article about a crime where someone was hung for what I recall was murder. His last name was Benson. Low and behold he was Ezra Taft Benson’s uncle. His name had been taken out of all of the Benson genealogy books that were available at the time. I went to my professor and asked why that would have been done. His reply, “a bunch of us got fired a few years ago for being honest historians, being a student I would advise you to not pursue this avenue of research.”

History is a tricky thing in the church. Exaggerated tales often become truth and factual history can be uncomfortable so it can often be hidden, dismissed, or presented in a manner that can change the narrative. No different than any other organization.

Edited for correction: It was his Uncle Charles Benson and he murdered an unarmed man. Things are so much easier to research today vs 25 years ago. If only I had the Google back then and didn’t have to rely on the stacks and microfiche.

History is interesting and yes certain things are not discussed, but they are out there if you are motivated enough to search them out

My apologies for the “illiterate” comment, it was uncalled for, but if you reread my post, I specifically asked for Floyd’s comments, not yours which I thought was clear.

It’s okay to have your own theory (opinion). Now, if I could have the same privilege everything would be easier to have conversations on.

I’m sure we all have black sheep’s in our family trees. I don’t see the problem with some crazy uncle. My dad caught a great uncle of mine skimming from the family business. It happens. Seems that we are taught that we will be judged by our own sins and not the sins of Adam.

This is an open forum. And, you personally attacked me while writing to someone else. We can have civilized conversations.

You mean personally being attacked like what you did when you called Thawk a socialist?

The only difference I see is that Sr_Burton recognized his comment as not being right

Where I seldom if ever see you apologize for your rude comments to others.

I think that is why you are not afforded the same latitude as others with your “Opinions”.

Just being honest here Scott, I think our conservation on this thread has been mostly civil, but in other threads, I can not say the same.

I am considered the “White Sheep” of the family, because I choose not to follow the same path as my parents and siblings (alcohol, smoking, etc.) :open_mouth:

The key was, why was he removed from the official family documents at the byu library? As much as we may not like or talk about the black sheeps of the family, genealogy is genealogy. It shouldn’t have been changed because someone who was influential in the church had a black sheep in the family. I found an older set of records printed in the 30s that had the mans name printed. It got removed later on. That is why I was told to stop looking into it. Moral of the story, never question the intentions of those who have more power whether religious or political. It just leads down paths that can get one in trouble.

Since my side of the family are mostly Jewish, I’m the black sheep for my conversion. I don’t think anyone lit a menorah for my death but for them I committed apostasy.
Either way, both our families see us as the weird ones or the black sheep. But, that’s fine with me.