In another thread, TexCoug called it like it is: Magnum has to go. People can blame it on the receivers, but as a group they are at least average, and Hifo and Bushman would be stars with a better QB. You can’t blame it on the line, because our OL is actually really good. You can’t blame it on the running backs, because Canada and Katoa are both good. Our QB is just not good. Like one of the worst passing QBs in all of D1. This year Magnum is 90th in the country in QB rating. Last year he was 111th. Even throwing for 270 vs USU, he did so with an embarrassing 6 yards per attempt. This year he is 117th in D1 in yards per attempt, with a ridiculously terrible 5.7. Last year? 116th with 6.0 ypa. (Taysom Hill, NEVER an accurate passer at BYU, in his two full seasons also had a similarly bad YPA, but he made up for it a weeeeeee bit by rushing for 2000 freakin’ yards and 18 TD, because he is a HOSS). So we have a QB who the numbers say is one of the worst passers in D1 two years in a row, and he can’t run at all. Time for BYU to face the facts: Magnum is just not a very good D1 QB. Does anyone realize that USU came into this game having played Michigan State, an average AFA team, and two “bye week” patsies, and even after throttling BYU, is still only 67th in the country in total defense??? AFA rushed for 323 against USU; even Tennessee Technical Arts and Crafts Academy averaged 3.5 yards per carry against USU–Coach Grimes and his “smash mouth” offense managed FOURTEEN carries for FOURTEEN YARDS (before Wilson’s late scramble). Everyone knows our QB can’t throw downfield, and can’t run, so they just load up 8 or 9 guys on the line, and play man press on the outside, knowing Magnum can’t do it. It makes average defenses look good, and great defenses like LSU last year or UW this year look like Super Bowl defenses. USU’s defense IS NOT GOOD. It is very average, and maybe not even that. But they made us look STUPID. I get that UW can make us look stupid, because they really are THAT much better than BYU. But USU? Really? I can’t imagine the rookie possibly being worse than Magnum, and if he is, who cares? It’s a lost season anyway and BYU should find out if the rookie is a star in the making.
PS: I can’t wait to watch our offense try to gain a yard against the Utes. That could get really ugly really fast.
Well, I have been saying it since last season after game #2 BYU doesn’t stand a chance in the big scheme of things with Tanner as the QB. The Y doesn’t have 1 or 2 QB’s better than Tanner … they have 3! There are coaches who can put together game plans with the best of them and there are coaches who can run well laid out practices and then there are coaches who can see talent and potential within the first 5 min of watching an athlete. It is those coaches who can see talent and potential who end up earning the big bucks. Those coaches are also able to quickly see who are practice players vs game players. There is a difference.
Tanner is not a game player. This is Sitakes problem. Wilson looks like he is a game player. For all we know the other 2 backups may also be gamers. What Some of us knew last year is that Tanner wasn’t and isn’t. Wilson could have taken the blitz right out of the USU game plan with his legs. Grimes and Sitake have to realize that. They will have to swallow their pride and put Tanner on the bench and admit their mistake and suffer the embarrassment and get it over with.
Wilson needs to start the next game. Period! If he doesn’t, this will be a season that will be very detrimental to the ability of a fan base to support BYU football for years to come. I will warn that I think our DC needs to be fired and replaced too. Wilson starts and the DC is demoted or fired immediately. This will give the Y the best shot at stabilizing this season. QB is the most important player on the field. BYU will be lucky to win 2 more games this year if Tanner remains as the starter. Grimes and Sitake both share the blame for this debacle and Sitake shares most of the blame for not firing the DC last year with Detmer.
I would have yanked Tanner after that pick 6 just on the fact the way he threw it as if he were fearful of USU. We talk about yanking basketball players when they really mess up. Tanner should have been placed next to Sataki to have him bend his ear.
Those who say that Grimes has a plan to win with rushing yards at about 150 a game and passing yards at about the same … are just living a bad dream that success will come out of that kind of offense. Success just won’t happen against good teams with those stats … an occasional winning lottery ticket aside!
The next comment kind of contradicts what you are saying…
That usually means the Offensive line isn’t blocking very well. I think Wisconsin’s defense is probably better than USU, but they seemed to be able to open holes in that game.
I am playing devil’s advocate here. I understand the issues with Mangum… there is no way a senior QB should ever make that throw that went for a pick 6. It was a terrible decision. Why is everyone upset with Grimes? At the start of the season and after the first couple games (Wisconsin) everyone was talking about his greatness and how good everything was. Fans are too fickle…
Tanner has some confidence issues and he looks anxious and robotic out there. He aims his throws. It is like there is an obsession with making him a BYU great instead of letting it happen so it is a disaster. The wr’s haven’t been great this year and that isn’t helping his cause, but I agree that it is time to move on. He will be fine down the road, he has a family to support him. BYU needs to look to the future… NOW.
Can we at least put the coach-speak to rest, that Tanner was clearly the best man coming out of camp, and that there is absolutely no politics or favoritism in deciding who plays and how much? That Grimes, Sitake, et. al. just take a hard-nosed, dispassionate, objective evaluation and go with that?
It’s pretty obvious to me that Tanner got (and is getting) all kinds of unjustified favoritism as the senior, as the poor guy who’s been through a lot, or whatever.
I’m stunned, fish, that you’re assuming a win against Northern Illinois, Hawaii, and even UMass. I’m not assuming anything, except New Mexico St. And I think that score will be pretty close . . .
I think Wilson will get some playing time, but the coaching staff is going to follow through and give this season to Tanner, for better or worse (mostly worse).
Separate question: if we end up .500 or with a losing record, is Sitake gone? Or not yet? How many years does Grimes get to install his “smashmouth” jet sweep offense? I’m thinking of a recent article talking about how former Freshman All-American Matt Bushman is adjusting to his role being primarily blocking.
Let me clarify on what I meant to say about the line and our 14 yards rushing: I think our line is good, but I don’t think our line is good enough for us to consistently run the ball against 8 or 9 guys stacked in the box. I don’t think you are playing devil’s advocate, simply pointing out an inconsistency in my post. I get the feeling we agree about the underlying problem, which is that you cannot be a consistent winner in D1 with a QB who cannot stretch the field and/or makes terrible decisions, unless that kid is a crazy good runner and can bail out the offense in other ways.
Maybe I’m a foolish romantic. Sitake has to look elsewhere for points. Defenses have the Tanner offense completely figured out. We can’t generate enough points to beat anyone with Tanner. He have to look to Wilson, or Critch or Hoge or the new kid.
Rubicon: you bring up some interesting questions–here’s how I’d comment on them:
Sitake is in the last year of a 3 year deal. Since Bronco’s departure, there has been a significant increase in off the field problems that IMHO will make admin less likely to be patient with a losing coach. I think he may be gone even with a .500 record.
I think Grimes’ offense only works if you have a QB who forces the secondary to drop, and forces the LB to pause before they attack the gaps. I think our problem is more our QB than the scheme.
Bushman should be an all american. If they really told him he is not a primary target (which he obviously is not so far this year), I wouldn’t be surprised to see him transfer to a program that will win more and will throw him the ball. I’m pretty sure he still has his RS year.
I think Tanner should just do the following… He needs to tell Sitake to put in Wilson, he is your future, there is nothing more I can do if he can do it as good or possible better. He is a senior QB and there isn’t any good justification right now in using Tanner. Tanner has a had a descent run at BYU, its time he relinquish his role to Wilson and if its a matter of telling the coaches etc… He should do it… I imagine the coaches are going to make the change no matter what… .
I think Sitake and Grimes are smart guys, and I think they can figure it out. But not with Mangum at QB. We are all intelligent people but sometimes our stubbornness clouds our judgment, especially in the things that matter most to us. Sitake looked good in year 1 with NFL guys playing QB and RB. But for a year and a half now we have been losing to teams we should beat and getting blown out in games when we should be competitive, having kids kicked out of school, arrests, academic problems, good kids quitting the team, etc. Last year Sitake stubbornly stuck with Mangum all year even though he was terrible. This year, in a completely different scheme, he looks just as bad. If Mangum starts again and we play poorly again, I think there will be tens of thousands of empty seats in the second half.
It is my opinion that it will be extremely difficult to determine whom is the best QB comparing the games vs Arizona, Cal, and Washington vs the games to be played vs Hawaii, UMASS and New Mexico State.
Possibly a more fair comparison will be how we did vs. Utah State vs. how we do vs.
N. Illinois or Boise State.
Another way to look at it is how we did when we had Canada and other injured players all healthy vs how we are doing with no or extremely limited play time from Canada and other injured players.
I don’t think that we can put all the blame on Tanner. Too many other things come into play…
The only thing that most of us will agree on is that changes must be made if we are to survive. What we have done the past two games have been disastrous. Doing the same thing with no changes will be unacceptable and who should get the blame for that? Tanner??? or ?
They are in a tough spot. Loosing Canada has been a 40ppg disaster. It would not have saved either game but BYU has 22 rushing yards in the USU game before they inserted Wilson. The public has spoken. We get Wilson on Hawaii.
I believe that he does deserve a part of the blame.
I see the absence of Canada and other injured as part of the problem, but not all of the problem.
I see attitude and a lack of importance and a lack of urgency, coupled with horseplay at warmup time before the games, as just as much of the problem as Tanner.
I see a lack of full commitment from each and every coach on the field making sure that all the players under their direction are taking advantage of every moment at warmup time before the games, making sure that routes are being practiced, catching the ball, passing the ball, running with the ball, blocking, kicking and all that does into the program game time is being rehearsed. I see a lack of organized skill training on the field before the games compared to what I see with successful P5 teams.
Yes, we almost definately need a change, and possible Tanner should be included in that change, but Tanner is not the only change needed. We need to return to the urgency in needing the win and we need to play much more hungry for that win.
Ron, you are right to some extent on Tanner and we are on the same page with the injury of Canada and others. But BYU started losing big once defenses realized that Tanner could not throw down field as a threat. Couple that with our rushing woes and you get blown out by a average USU team. BYU had to change directions. We simply could not generate enough points to beat anyone.
In Wilson, I saw a guy who could make the basic outside shoulder pass to Shumway. Make passes to guys in stride so that they could make at least one up field move (Gunner made 2 in his score). Time to let the young guns have their shot. There was nothing left to do.
Thank you for your reply. I believe that we are in agreement now. I am expecting a good show tonight from our coaches and from our players. I am expecting a new spark on the offensive as a result of the new energy brought to bare by our Freshman QB, Zack Wilson. I am looking for more intense pass rush, blocking and tackling from our defense. I think that our coaches job security is at risk if we are not better. I believe that we will win this game vs Hawaii by 7-10 points. I believe the score will be 17 BYU to (7-10) Hawaii.