Rivalry week? do we care?

Football
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Being on field level, is harder to see if the hand was on the facemask or the shoulder pads, while replay showed it to be the latter, I can understand why the official thought that a facemask was, because the BYU did hit the facemask in the initial hit, the QB head turned down (a sign for facemask), so I can see why they called it.

You have no clue what is and is not defensive holding, outside that you cheer for the cougars and will side with them every time.
On the other hand, I have 2 decades of experience and training to know what defensive holding looks like. So, I will stick with my statement.

Announcers were clueless…
NCAA rule for Defensive holding:
Defensive holding involves using hands or arms to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, or hold an opponent.

The Utah player did none of those things.
Watch the video frame by frame, and you will see he checked him at the line (which is legal), then there was contact, but no hook, lock, clamp, grasp, or hold

Utah AD Mark Harlan Says Referees ‘Stole’ a Win from Utah

you should know, it is also childish and immature to think that the officials were fair with 10 penalties each.

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my thoughts and you won’t like them:

Utah had 3 turnovers in the game, BYU 1. BYU won the game in almost every stat except 3rd downs (1-11) and rushing yards, Utah edges out BYU. But in every single stat except the ones mentioned, BYU was the clear winner. Utah being held scoreless in the 2nd half, sounds like sour grapes to me

Where was the urgency when Utah was losing 4 games in a row? When they mailed it in on Houston? So, yes, usually the refs should let the players decide the final score and somehow it did not feel like this was the case but again, Utah, where were you when your season was on the line??? You guys QUIT and now you want to ruin BYU’s Cinderella season…and it is when you factor in the miracle of the OSU and Utah games.

Now that the dust is settling, Utah comes across as a soiled Child.

2 Likes
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I have no problem with your view, because it is from the viewpoint of a fan.

I viewed the game from the perspective of an official, not what team is doing great and what team is doing poorly for whatever the reason. Like I said in my post:

From what I saw on the field, through the eyes of an official, they failed at all three parts of the job.
I do not care if it is the first play of the game, nor the last play, if there was a penalty that happened it should be called.

I had to watch the replay three times to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. That was NOT defensive holding on the Utah player, there was bumping going on, but in the NCAA that is allowed.

Being as competitive as I am, I can understand Whitt behavior and reaction. Whittingham is extremely competitive, and I think Kalani understood what he was going through, because Kalani was on the officials at the end of the 1st half over the bogus calls they made against BYU.

I would think Whitt will call Kalani sometime today and smooth things over with him, they are extremely close friends.

Harlan on the other hand, I have never liked. He cries too much when his team gets screwed, but never when Utah benefits. He should never have said what he did in the press conference. He has avenues to remedy the situation with the bad officials, he should have taken it to the BIG12 office instead, I think both Whitt and Kalani would have backed him up if he did.

I want to make something very clear; officials should never ever cost a team a win. It is one of the reasons why I stopped watching as much sports as I once did. Too many officials want to “be noticed”.
I understand good calls, bad calls and no calls can happen during the game. That is called being human. But what I saw on the field, violated every standard that I learned in officiating sports.

Second, how many of you have complained about the PAC12 officials over the years costing BYU games because of bias or bogus calls? I do find it ironic that now that BYU benefited from bogus calls, you are calling out Utah for their behavior.

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Wouldn’t be the holy war without a lot of controversy and someone saying something completely and utterly stupid. I just didn’t think it would be the Utah athletic director.

According to Locked on Big 12 (video linked above) was at the game. He said that what they showed on the big screen in the stadium was clearly holding. What I saw on the Replay for ESPN I couldn’t tell you either way. I will say that the AD has some big Humble Pie to eat, because if he doesn’t Utah will become the most hated team in the Big 12. So either he eats Humble Pie, he gets fired or Utah will be the most hated team.

Honestly I hope they become the most hated team in the Big 12. For years they’ve played the point the finger at the other guy as I do the thing I’m accusing them of. Pisses me off so bad and makes me absolutely hate the team, and it’s time for them to get their comeuppance.

I recommend listening to the entire thing he makes some very good points about the game and why Utah lost

Floyd if you have some better video of the hold than what we saw on ESPN, I would love to see them.

1 Like
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I noticed he never showed what he said he saw on the Jumbo Tron…

Here is how I view what he said, “It is based on what he thinks, not necessarily the truth”. It is the same think for Hopper, he has an opinion about the call, but that does not make it correct.

I base my opinion on the training that I had, It would have been nice to see the video that the Trumbo Tron showed, but I hate to break it to the podcaster, the video shown on the Tron comes from the ESPN telecast. They don’t have separate cameras setup.

This is what I posted on the podcaster site:
What I saw in the game, which is totally unbelievable to me is how an officiating crew effectively screwed both teams in a single game.

In the first half, this crew called some bogus calls on BYU that helped Utah go up 21-10. The bogus “roughing the passer”, the holding call on Hill, when replay clearly shows that he was not holding, but did a textbook block and of course the numerous holding calls on the offensive line
Then this crew turns around and make bogus calls on Utah in key situations in the second half, that allowed BYU back into the game. The most glaring one is in the last two minutes of the game.

It will be interesting to see if the BIG12 office will comment on the holding call. They have “justified/explained” in the past controversial calls in games.

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You and your training as if it’s better than the refs on the field. I guarantee you that you are a child to their experience and abilities. If you really think you know
More or can see better from a TV, then you must have been a bad official. And to think the announcers don’t know who have played the game and maybe referees as well, shame on you.

Now, with that said, referees can have a bad game as well. They are a part of the game and don’t get paid enough to take the crap from the peanut gallery. The AD needs to go somewhere else. So does Utah because if they can’t take the heat then get out and go back to the Pac12. They lost the game. Not the refs.

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I went to the same training seminars that these guys go too every year.

My several awards for officiating say otherwise.

Just because you played the game does not mean you know how to apply the rules in games situations. That is why most players never go on to become officials.

That is very true, but to have a bad game, means that you “missed calls”. But to turn on the switch at halftime does not show a “bad game” but rather incompetence.

What peanut gallery? Officials knows that they are going to take heat from coaches and players for making 'calls", that is part of the training in how to deal with that. Most officials do not care what the AD or fans or coaches think, only what the front office thinks.

Because of the way the officials called this game, we have no real idea who really “won” or “lost” this game.

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Apparently, you didn’t learn what they did. It was clear the receiver was the play. Retzlaff was going to be the receiver for the called pass play. It was a quick pass to the sideline but he was held. And players know just as much if it more than the refs who sit in a class. Awards? LOL!

Here’s what I know, BYU fans know it was holding. Utah AD needs to resign and Utah can go back to the PAC12 and dominate a P3 league.

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I’ve looked everywhere I can and the only thing I can find is the ESPN version and it’s only 720P. If the video is the same and no one has a different angle, then I don’t know how we can comment on this in any way shape or form. Doesn’t matter what training you have you can’t see it well enough to know what actually happened. only thing I can do is trust the refs.

I’m willing to eat crow on this if someone can post a video that shows exactly what you’re talking about Floyd, but until then there’s no way for any of us to say definitively.

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You can see the arm wrapped in front and the WR trying to step left to get by him. Definite hold as the announcers say as well. And you are correct that the ref has the best angle. In the record book, it says holding. End of story.

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The bottom line is that Utah is a crappy team this year. I have watched a few of their games and they just aren’t very good. With all of their success recently, it is hard for them to deal with being bad. So they have a chance to beat BYU and in their small, short term thinking minds that will make their season a good one. The fact that they have a losing record now is lost in all of that thinking. Because they choked away a gimme win from BYU (let’s be honest, BYU played one of their worst games this season) and couldn’t finish the early holiday gift, they are stomping around like little kids who had their candy taken away.

Get over it Utes, you disappeared in the second half of a game that BYU basically gave to you and you let it get away. That’s on you, not the officials. Stop the whining.

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Floyd uses his experience as an official to get under everyone’s skin in much the same way Hopper does. They convince themselves they are correct in their perspectives in order to make others upset. It’s not a lot different from today’s political climate.

People are lemmings, they follow trends and behaviors. If a group of people started running toward a cliff and jumping off you’d be surprised at the number of people that would follow them.

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They haven’t let anyone score more than 21 points all year? Their defense was good again all game. Their offense was good in the 2nd quarter but we adjusted our defense for the 2nd half and shut them out. Our defense and special teams again were major factors and played well.

The offense played okay in the 2nd half as we moved the ball for a touchdown and 2 field goals. All while the defense awakened.

So, the players overcame terrible 2 weeks of preparations by the coaches. However, good adjustments at halftime gave hope and with those with faith, we hung in there and won.

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:rofl:
You missed your calling as a comedian

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The difference Jim, is I also blamed the officials of screwing BYU in the first half.

too many phomton calls tha killed BYU mojo in the first half. i really didnt think Utah earned the 21 points in the 2nd qtr.

That crew reminded me of the MWC officials. UGH!

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best video I have seen on the holding call. looks like it is a hold even by what you said

I see the U defender with his right arm grab the byu receiver’s left shoulder pad and pull him towards himself. You can see this in the way the byu player’s body twists towards him

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They were PAC12 officials. So, why would Utah think they were cheated? You said yourself the game was stolen from them. Did you misspeak?

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That is a good video you provided! It was a hold and the flag was thrown immediately. I hadn’t seen this before.

I am stunned by the win for BYU. They keep getting out of the mouse trap. The offense was bad and at times terrible. Thank heavens for the special teams and the defense.

I am hesitant to jump on the band wagon at this pint because …. And I keep saying it …. Utah is not a very good team. BYU just keeps getting by and as long as they do that the sky is the limit. Our offense is simply the luckiest part of the the team. I don’t like it and the throwing motion of Jake is terrible. He will continue to get balls batted down. Our play calling is bad. The chance that the BYU offense will spring to life at the right moment still exists but I still don’t have faith.

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Both teams had bad calls, true?
Utah has no foot to stand on. 49 yds total offense and zero points in the 2nd half. and somehow BYU did not deserve to win? Whatever.…would I have been broken hearted if BYU lost? nope. Am I elated that BYU is still in the running for a Big 12 championship? absolutely.

Floyd, you don’t have to defend anything. consider the source!

My feelings as well…Utah, you didn’t care during your 4 game losing streak, you have nothing to play for, so why chirp so loud. If this was 2 undefeated teams playing for all the marbles, I would be very sympathetic. As it is, you did nothing in the 2nd half and you want to protest the game over 1 call…What ev…

Fernk, thanks for posting. In my view, it could of gone either way and I would be happy with it…Officials should never let the game be about them (score one for Floyd) in this case, the flag was justified and BYU still had to march the field and hit a field goal.

My biggest concern was BYU’s poor clock management at the end of both halves. It was absolutely pathetic and should of cost BYU the game.

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my main point is that this crew made phamton calls that killled any mojo for both teams.

what was strange is that you could see it in each half for the other team.

I never said either Utah or BYU should have won the game. both teams played like crap, it was a throwup who would win.

again, i watch games not as a fan, but an offical.