Okay, well I guess you now know better than the coach himself.
You have an interesting perspective… and I’m not sure why you didn’t become the John Wooden of the 21st century with all of your knowledge and complete mastery of the game of basketball. This is probably how I would sound trying to make people believe I was an expert at Cricket… something I know nothing about.
This whole exercise is an interesting one. I think it is more about personality types and behavior than it is about finding the truth and figuring out what can be done to make the team better.
It is amazing to me that you really don’t see it. All this time I thought it was just arguing for the sake of the matter, but it is really the fact that you just don’t see it. How many people need to say it before you will believe it? What would it take for you to finally acknowledge it? I don’t think God himself could convince you at this point…
wow…the talent, at least overall, on the team is suspect?
Inexperienced, selfish, lack of chemistry, ok all are true to one level or another. But that this team lacks the talent to win the WCC outright is…(what words should one use?). Simply have to disagree with the premise.
I find it strange that someone with the most intelligence of everyone on here combined resorts to simpleton responses to a complex issue. Using “selfishness” as the sole reason for the struggles this team has is what a mediocre 7th grade coach would resort to
You have to be able to understand a knee jerk reaction to use a simpleton response such as selfishness is beneath your level
6 times so far they have been unable to outscore supposedly less talented teams. Too many freshman gunning from 3’s is a recipe for losses in their gyms. There has been little effort to get Fischer open for 3’s of late. Next year, some things will be different and we will win more games. But, selfishness is not the sole issue and most likely not worthy of discussion.
Now you are resorting to claiming that I am using “Selfishness as the sole reason” for the struggles this team has.
Nowhere… absolutely nowhere, have I made that claim. I have stated that it is one of the primary things that has contributed to their lack of success. There is no “knee jerk reaction” and I am sure most here would concur with this. There are other things that contribute and you have mentioned some of those… free throw shooting and poor defense are two big ones.
Now be careful as to how you react to my next comment because it is important and relevant.
I think you may be having a breakthrough moment here. It is important for you to distinguish between “selfishness” as being the sole reason for the struggles and “selfishness” being one of the important factors. I happen to believe it is the most important one at this time… but NOT THE ONLY ONE.
If you can understand that then maybe you are on the road to acknowledging that it is a problem, something you haven’t been able to do to this point.
Take your time here… knee jerk reactions inhibit your growth.
Yeah… I saw that. It is very likely that this may have helped Portland in some way. Of course there are always a number of things that can contribute to the win/loss of a game.
Talent, execution, effort, discipline, coaching, officiating and others are all factors. One of the more important factors working against BYU this season, as stated by Coach Rose, is that the players want to win but sometimes they try to do it on their own instead of as a team… another word for selfish play.
The pro BYU crowd gave Portland a little extra incentive apparently… sometimes things come in different packages. You are right.
It is absolutely worthy of discussion! as evidenced by the fact that most of us have noticed it and see it as a problem. If you want to talk about things that might be different next year, I can tell you right now that if the team chemistry improves and they play together as a TEAM then yes, they will win a lot more games.
Lastly, please tell us how there has been little effort to get Fischer some open 3’s? He took 8 3 pointers vs. Portland in a loss and only 4 vs. Gonzaga in a win. BYU was 3-17 in that game and still won. That is not a problem for this team… getting Fischer more 3 point attempts.
It really comes back to a couple of things, the most important of which is selfish play… something Fischer has improved upon the last few weeks.
No, some of you are too simple-minded and lower yourselves to name calling. Something I avoid
Instead, I have more knowledge and apply a higher level of logic and reasoning instead of something you can’t possible judge. I would hope you and others can learn from my example
Freshmen gunning threes=selfishness. Little effort to get Fisher open=selfishness. Losing to teams less talented - probably=selfishness. Two out of three and possibly three out of three of the problems you listed can be tied directly to selfishness. Add this to the fact that the coach has publicly admonished his team for selfishness and your “advanced” basketball mind comes up with talent and coaching as the problem. Somehow, the talent and coaching will no longer be a problem next year when we lose three seniors, two of which you insisted early this season should not see adjusted roles for poor play and we replace those seniors with freshmen and sophomores, most newly returning from missions.
Let me sum up, 1. the coaches this year are part of the problem. 2. The talent this year is part of the problem. 3. Part of the solution for this year’s team is to create more opportunities for a player that won’t be on next year’s team. 4. Coaching will not be a problem/as much of a problem next year. 5. The solution for next year’s team is to replace the three seniors on this year’s team with talented freshmen and sophomores. 6. It is not a solution for this year’s team to change the roles of the seniors (who are apparently part of the problem that will go away once they are gone) and create more roles for talented freshmen and sophomores that will be part of the solution for next year’s team. 7. Under no circumstance is the problem selfish play even though the all of the problems can be tied to selfish play. 8. It is not worth talking about selfish play because that isn’t the problem even though all of the problems that you can name can be tied to selfish play.
I hate for it to appear like there are “sides” in an argument but at this point that is about all that is left. You are right, Rose understands what his team needs to do to win games. He knows when they are sharing the ball and playing as a team, their chances for success go way up. When they are not doing those things, as in looking for their own shot, not sharing the ball, etc. then they are not successful. Not the only thing but certainly an important part of the equation.
Thanks for confirming that Rose is on my side of the argument, let’s just hope that Scott can accept it now. More importantly, I think we can put this argument to rest now. Here’s to the Cougars playing well tonight.
His point is not about selfishness. It’s about everyone working hard with a chemistry that works.
“Rose understands his team won’t grab two wins this week without an effort to play as a team: “We need all our guys to help, it’s not going to be done by a couple guys,” he said.”
Note that he wants players to help KC and Fischer and Davis. That puts the effort part on the rest of the team. It doesn’t suggest selfishness. It suggest KC, Fischer and Davis are believing they have to do more because the others aren’t doing their best.
See my post to Floyd as once again your reading comprehension misinterprets Rose. If anyone is being selfish it’s the role players for not giving it their best effort to work as a team. Watching the screens shows that is obvious.
I’m done responding to Gavenman on this issue. If he reads this that is fine but with regards to the things we have been discussing about selfish play, I’m done responding to him.
Interesting game tonight. The psycho head cases for BYU are out in force again. What in the world is going on with Collinsworth? It is like he has been reading these threads. I understand trying to get your teammates shots but let’s try and find some balance here Kyle. We all know he is not a point guard but refusing to take one lousy shot the entire first half? Ridiculous. Balance balance balance… he is playing like a freshman with no experience. Come on Kyle… it’s like you’re trying to avoid shooting.
Selfish by who? This is exactly what I thought would happen. We pass and pass and miss. All this selfish crap has made it more difficult to develop chemistry. They got hot and we got cold. Now we are rushing shots.
KC one shot? That’s not selfish.
Excellent second half effort. So many good things happening out there. That is how you play team basketball.
Another Collinsworth triple double and it wasn’t manufactured. Not sure why he wasn’t shooting the ball once in awhile in the first half but no matter. I hope he see the difference and I’m so glad that Rose made the comments he did and that Kyle agreed he needed to get his teammates some shots.
Team play was the key. How many times did one of the guards drive and dish? Collinsworth, Fischer, Emery all made the decision to drive and dish instead of forcing their way and throwing up crap.
After a major brain fart in the first half where they were outscored and let LMU go on a 20-0 run, the played much better defense in the second half.
Well, there are other things I can mention but that will suffice for now. I think it is pretty evident what this team is capable of when they play as a team.
This is what we’ve been hoping for. Now go out and do the same thing to Pepperdine… no brain farts, play tough defense and share the ball, play as a team!
Against Portland he got his teammates plenty of shots. They just sucked shooting 38%. See what happens when we shoot better. A few more shots and we win.
He didn’t take shots in the first half because loud mouths were calling him selfish and we got down big.
They were doing that in the first half too. But we shot a putrid 36%. See the difference.
LMU as other teams have done, shot way over their abilities. 68% in the first half.
The team ball looked better when they went small. So did their defense. Chatman needs to ride the pine for a while. Lack of concentration big time.
Aytes is lost.
Kaufusi needs more playing time.
