I hate to agree with Hopper …. ever! But he might be 98% correct on this issue. Capitalism is a great system for allocating resources more quickly than any other economic system in the world. It stimulates creativity and resourcefulness. Technology is the cure for all economic and climate problems.
The one caveat is that there needs to be an honest and smart impartial governing body to keep the playing field level and not allow monopolies to take over. Honest government officials responsive to the voters and not appointed are key. Court systems that aren’t corrupt and decide the fair application of the law are a must. The world’s wealthiest people have by and large made millions/billions of people’s lives better. Since they can’t take the wealth with them it tends so be used to benefit society over the long run. When the Savior comes again he will probably use the same system with a few eternal principles thrown in …… like where to place the resources quickly and how to handle the wealth generated for the benefit of all people. One big exception will be that the poor will be expected to work hard and pay some taxes also. But the rising tide will lift all people. The Law of Consecration will be the key to hugely impacting the standard of living of the whole church and world.
There I will be no need for unions sucking off peoples income and no allowing wealthy people to take advantage of workers or society. I will love to help out and see it work!
One question with the Millennium. Will we be under the United Order by then? Am Incorrect in that there will be no death during this time as well? Just more births?
I didn’t disagree with that. In fact, I mentioned that it is the best system to help most of the people. However, it is not even close to being without problems. It is also designed for greedy, mega wealthy people to take advantage of others. Who are those others? They are the people that live in poverty with barely enough to keep the clothes on their back and feed themselves. I’m not talking about people who want to feed off the system, I’m talking about hard working people who are just trying to survive.
It’s interesting how they are never really included in the discussions. Redefine what poverty is and you can claim that billions are not there anymore. I say it’s nonsense.
If you think that caveat only accounts for a 2% incorrect then that is where we diverge in belief and opinion. I don’t think those things exist anymore and they haven’t for several decades. The last president of the US that was really a president of the people was Ronald Reagan. A lot of people like Trump because he appears to do better than the typical politicians… who are totally corrupt.
I’m not sure how the wealth of Bezos or some of the Saudi oil dudes benefits the poor… is it because they hire some delivery guys or slaves to take care of their palaces? I agree with you all in principle, I just think your reality is a little distorted.
The facts don’t agree with you. But, you will fight it anyways.
Yes, there will always be problems because people run capitalism. Governments restrict much with regulations. There are greedy people. But, look at North Korea as an example of Marxism with a greedy totalitarian dictator. The poverty there is staggering. China was that way before they gave into some capitalism and free markets. Xi is taking that away and poverty will increase.
Good point but don’t expect Hopper to acknowledge it. He will twist it and then use it to “prove” something else. Just because someone isn’t starving anymore or can finally put a shirt on their back doesn’t mean they have been lifted out of poverty. I challenge someone to provide an accurate definition of what poverty is. Not something that agenda pushers use to influence perspective and opinion. That is what research scientists do, right?
It isn’t the wealth of Bezos or Gates or Buffet or Ellison that helps anyone. It is the products and the resources that their creations have invented or brought to the world population. Their contributions to society are huge. The ability to be more efficient in one’s life, as a company, as a church or in the medical community. Saudi oil is an important cog in the world economic engine. Just because these ultra wealthy individuals have amassed large net worths doesn’t mean they took it from others. They have up the net worth of the world.
I don’t know where you are coming from with the 2% issue. I haven’t said anything about that topic in this discussion. Technology has lifted poor countries in a greater % than rich counties. Just the way information is transferred and shared as well as phone communications with internet access is now available to most poor countries without ever having the old required hard phone lines installed over the entire country. The last 50 years has seen the most tremendous growth of the “poor” in terms of net worth and ability to improve their lives than the world has ever seen. People getting ultra rich isn’t making all other people poor. There is unlimited wealth potential here on earth.
You can fight the facts all you want because there are people who have millions or billions of dollars. That’s a different topic as Thawk has tried to explain. The world over 200 years of the event of capitalism has sever poverty down to just 9%. And you still want to argue.
Like I said, these definitions have changed over time. You can call “severe poverty” (now it’s severe, not just poverty) whatever you want to fit your narrative and you can define it so it makes the argument more valid. These are the exact kinds of things that lead humanity down this path of denial and ignorance about what is really going on. I am glad that “severe poverty” is down to 9%, from whatever it was at whatever time in the past that it was more “severe”. That is a good thing, whatever it means.
The one thing that the majority of people don’t see is the bigger picture. Thawk alluded to it in a good portion of his previous post about political leaders and others. What does all of this contribute to the bigger picture. I mean you are the one that stands on the podium and tells us we are to forgive Kelce and do all this other stuff. Ultimately how is it affecting society in a positive way? People have a hard time growing closer to Heavenly Father when they can only think of surviving day to day. Does this newfound release from poverty and the megawealth of so many help them focus on what really matters ultimately? No, it doesn’t. So who really cares and what does it matter if that isn’t happening?
I’m not arguing, that is something you do. I just don’t see it the same way you do. Why do we need all these charitable organizations (particularly in this country) that feed people and pretend to care? So we can keep those people from falling into the severe poverty category and keep them from ruining the newfound statistics? It’s phony and fradulent, another piece of the bigger picture… There are lots of other things but I’ll stop there.
Pretend to care? I’ve been a member of a ministerial association for almost 15 years now. It’s the one area we all agree on since our doctrines are far apart. I haven’t met one person who is a part of the charities here that do it for personal pride or gain. They do it because Jesus said feed the poor and the widows. Take care of people and give to the poor the best you can.
Yes, there are charities that are not in it for the people they help. But for all the people that give a little bit to St. Jude’s Hospital and the Shriners or Children’s Hospital, bless them for the children they save.
Capitalism has given the ability for charities to exist as people earn more money. If we didn’t have half the country supporting Marxism we could do a lot more. Instead, any minimum wage increase is eaten up by inflation, a tax on the poor. It’s not just Democrats either. It’s mostly them but it’s also the republican Rhinos.
Nothing has changed with the definition. It’s the same as 200 years ago. From almost 100% to 9% because of Capitalism, as poorly as it is managed sometimes, has done just what Thawk said it has. And that’s a real good thing. We just need to do our part and follow what has worked and continues to work.
respectfully…bunkum pure unadulterated bunkum…it wasn’t designed at all. it grew out of the English Civil Law tradition…just as today…different states, different governments just keep making what they consider the best for the situations facing them…not by design…just natural growth.
I apologize for my choice of words. I didn’t really mean “designed” but that is what greedy, mega wealthy people use it for. Politicians are all to ready to assist… just help keep them in office and they take care of each other. Capitalism today is full of corruption.
Capitalism is a system of economics. It’s neither corrupt or incorruptible. People steal from any system of economics. Yet, we still have billions out of severe poverty.
Who’s Adam Smith. Like I said, people take advantage of any system of economics and of government. Comes with life on earth. The best we can do is do all we can to preserve the good like Thawk attempted to help you understand. It’s the best this world has seen.
Just checking on why he would say that as if capitalism is a bad thing. I know who he was. The question is why do people attack it instead of attacking the corrupt people who work the system at the the disadvantage of others. He attacks the wealthy who actually give opportunities to those looking for work.
Once again, you enjoy perseverating with something even though the idea has long since passed. I understand and agree with this. You don’t have to keep using thawk comments …
There is this thing called google and you can put in a name or word or anything you want and it will provide you with information about it. Hopper, you of all people should know who he was. I would say something about being clueless but I don’t want to make John feel bad.
I know who Adam Smith was. I should have said Who cares who’s Adam Smith. It was a conversational way. Uggg…
Anyways, why the animosity against capitalism? And, why attack those giving hope and opportunity with employment. The rich don’t give employment to people. I think you don’t like competition where you lose. So, you have to blame the refs, the business owners and so on…
