WCC Conference Tourney

I believe we need to win the first 2 games. One thing that is in our favor is that we don’t have a game Friday night. Whoever we play does play Friday before our game with them on Saturday. Of course, hopefully we don’t take three-quarters of the game to warm up from a week off. But, we will be fresh and hopefully shoot better (Haws).

The second good thing is that before we most likely will play St. Mary’s again, we have a day of rest. While they might get together and discuss the Monday game, no actual practice. Hopefully the Lord blesses us with keeping the Sabbath Day Holy up until at least sundown :wink:

Great defense again and rebounding should bring us two victories in the tournament. But, this is other teams shot at the NCAA’s too. So, we have to have that killer instinct. Haws and Fischer have to show up big. Halford has to stay loose and shoot lights out again for 3 games. KC simply get 3 triple doubles. And, Winder must play better than against Gonzaga. Also, our bigs have to keep playing well.

I’m sure the downer half cup is empty Hawks will add that it doesn’t matter because the referees will see to it that BYU can’t win :wink:

I agree that we need to beat St Marys to be in. ESPN’s announcers on Saturday night said we were in with the Gonzaga win…I don’t think so. If we win our first game and lose to St Mary’s, we’re firmly on the bubble, probably on the outside.

Back to the Gonzaga win. I had a major problem with a DR coaching move when Andrus was on the line up 1 with 1.5 seconds to play. Gonzaga had no timeouts left. It was great that Andrus made the first shot, though it didn’t matter much. But I thought he should have missed the second on purpose. I screamed, “No!” at my TV when the second one went in. Then DR called a timeout which allowed the Zags to set up a play. I was mortified. If Andrus misses the second shot, the Zags have 1.5 seconds to collect the rebound…remember they had no timeouts left…and get a hurried shot off - which would be at least 75 ft from the basket.

But instead, DR called the timeout which meant Gonzaga could set up a play which worked out to be an uncontested shot just longer than halfcourt. Why!!! We were up three then but if Gonzaga hits the game tying three, do any of us think BYU has a chance to win in OT? With KC out and Gonzaga having all the momentum at home and with the refs cheering along? Me neither. Bad coaching by DR, who I think is a great coach that does the best with what we have.

It’s always a question about whether to miss the free throw or not. With less than one second it’s a no brainer. But, 1.5 seconds, not as clear. If a lucky 75ft shot goes in then we lose. Tough decision in remembrance of Delavedoga’s last second three.

The time out is something I would have to see the entire court. Perhaps we were not set up on defense and they would have gotten Pangos open for a good looking 3 shot. I’m more interested on what happened to Haws mind at the free throw line all night long. left on 4 free throws with those 2 critical ones that would have made this discussion mute.

Agree with the Haws misses with 6.6 seconds left. Unbelievable because he is normally so good at FT (89%). With 1.5 seconds left, there is no time for the rebounder to get it and pass. He can only get the rebound, set his feet or dribble quickly, then heave it probably football style which is about a 2% chance to go in. Whereas Wiltjer’s shot just past halfcourt was two-handed in rhythm with really no defense which is probably in 15% of the time. In All-Star weekend, they do a similar shot and people make it all the time.

It’s funny how DR is the goat either way. He has Andrus miss and the 2% goes in, he’s a goat. If he has Andrus make it and doesn’t take a time out, they throw a long pass to an open Pango and he nails a 3, he’s a goat. If he does what he did, he’s a goat. Maybe coaches should be allowed to wear goatees :wink: That way it doesn’t matter what they do they are ahead of the arm chair QB’s of their complaints :slight_smile:

“downer half cup is empty”?

Resorting to the name calling when I point out you were wrong about something?

Everyone who knows anything about the game of basketball knows why Haws missed those two free throws, 100% mental focus and nerves. Please tell me if there is a more automatic, robot like shooter and scorer in the league than Haws. The answer is no.

When he is on his shot, the guy doesn’t miss. When he is focused and nerve/pressure free I’ll bet the guy could hit 100 in a row. The game changer is when it gets tight and the pressure is on in a big game.

I guarantee you that Jimmer or Ainge both would have nailed those free throws and their % isn’t as good as Haws overall.

If that is a downer half cup empty comment, so be it.

Wiltjers shot was so close to going in-one in a thousand if Andrus misses free throw unless we have a delinquent clock operator :smile: all is good he missed but with 1.5 I’m with CL and expected the intentional miss-of course Andrus would need to touch the rim and not air ball it and no idiot foul on the rebound which I can actually see BYU doing:(

Sorry man, DR is not the goat whatever happens. The goat is TH… all time leading scorer misses two free throws to put the game away and that is your goat.

The fact that we are even discussing the strategy for Andrus making or missing is ridiculous…

Craig, I watched the girls play Portland and the same thing…they are out of timeouts and only a second to go and BYU is up by 1 or 2…brick it and let them try a hale mary.


That’s just dumb. Wasn’t even anything part of the conversation. What is it with you and Haws? He has a bad game and he’s the worst player of all time. Your logic is mindboggling

My “logic” is confirmed by many astute posters on this board. You are the one that overblows everything someone posts. I talk about facts and then mix in my opinion while you state an opinion that has no basis in fact.

It had nothing to do with a “bad game” and that is why I know your reading comprehension and ability to understand what somebody is saying are not in tune with most fans. You just don’t get what I am talking about… as evidenced by your comment that “he’s the worst player of all time”.

My logic is sensible, yet boggles your mind. Your LOGIC is nonexistent. :slight_smile:

I get a chuckle every time you write “my” and “logic” in the same sentence :slight_smile:

Your conclusions are emotional based and thus excludes even an ounce of logic. As an example, which is well-known by the board members, your irrational illogical conspiracy theories :wink:

If it matters, the refs will probably try and make BYU win every game in the tourney except the gonzaga game. They want two teams in the tourney and BYU is their only hope unless someone else actually beats Gonzaga in the championship game.

Let’s be honest for a moment here and please answer my question -

How is the conclusion (confirmed by many here) that Tyler Haws folds up like a tent in big games and big game moments emotional based? and subsequently how does that exclude an ounce of logic?

The conclusion is based on facts.

He doesn’t even come close to his season average when playing at Gonzaga, he misses not one, but two free throws at the most critical part of the game and overall has yet another terrible game against the annual conference champs. Is it not true that he has a penchant for disappearing regularly (not every time but often enough to be noticeable problem) in tough games and situations?

Of course it is true and it is based in factual logic.

Another example of what I am talking about was your statement that Tyler Haws scored the first 7 points of the second half. That was false. He didn’t score in the second half until 8 minutes had passed, then he scored 7 points, and didn’t score again the rest of the game.

Your statement was incorrect and it didn’t support your conclusion.

Work on that…

One game in 4 years is a fact? Again, prove your point with facts. Not because of one game.

Interesting article “Loyal Cougars” on Haws shooting percentages in the last two minutes of close games this year compared to Jimmer. Read it-it may answer a few questions if there is such a thing! :smile:

Here’s the article: http://www.loyalcougars.com/2015/03/03/byu-basketball/6675-haws-missing-fts-at-gonzaga-was-stunning-or-was-it/

Yes, I saw it. And, it’s true. But, my response to Hawks is that he didn’t have those facts. It was all based on emotion, which conspiracy theorists go on. My statement still that Haws is a great player in the same breath as Jimmer and Ainge is because of his accomplishments. Yes, he’s better at beginning of games and in the middle after half-time. But, the attention he is given on the court by defenses makes it more difficult to score. He doesn’t have that 35 foot 3 point shot of Jimmer. Although, maybe he does but he plays a real team concept of play too and doesn’t shoot those long bombs.

Ainge is right about that go to guy in the final minutes or seconds. But, this team has good shooters and scorers that can win ball games at the end. I mean, how many really clutch players in the NBA are there? Very few. And, Jimmer isn’t one of those in the NBA.


You know it’s true SG. The funny thing is that I didn’t have to “have those facts” because INTUITIVELY I already knew that my opinion would be factual. It had nothing to do with “emotion”. It had to do with watching lots of games over the past several years that Haws has been playing. I knew it before I said it. At this point I would suggest that perhaps I am gifted in this area, sort of intuitively knowing something based on my observations.

You, on the other hand, do not have that gift. However, I am absolutely positive that there are things you know much better than I do and gifts you have that I don’t. Having been presented with the FACTS, you are now going into “spin mode” as you scramble to make sense of it all.

This attempt is so weak I don’t know where to begin to evaluate it. All I can say is that you simply don’t understand. You didn’t understand when I made the statement initially, you don’t understand it now that you have been provided with FACTUAL evidence of it and you won’t understand it in the future. It is what it is and that just isn’t going to change.

FYI - Here are a two examples of where you are so far off it isn’t even funny.

  1. the attention he is given on the court by defenses makes it more difficult to score.

JH - And Jimmer or Ainge weren’t given that same attention?

  1. he plays a real team concept of play too and doesn’t shoot those long bombs.

JH - How are his assist numbers? When Haws is in scoring mode, that team concept goes out the window. Often times he forces his shot and takes difficult shots when heavily covered.

Now, having proven you wrong again I need to clarify my point by saying that I think Haws is and has been a great player for BYU. There are times when I watch him and say to myself “his ability to score is incredible”. He is like a shooting robot that is programmed to not miss. Unfortunately when the game is tight and nerves are frazzled, when it is crunch time, that program exposes a bug and it can’t be reprogrammed.

The last thing to do is something that I know you won’t. Admit I was right and you were wrong. :slight_smile:

We are a lot like Haws and Jimmer. YOu make some good points and you understand the game of basketball. You are a decent middle reliever. But you are not a “closer” and you can’t finish. That is where I step in… and finish it off, win the game, etc. :slight_smile:

Have you strained your shoulder yet patting yourself on the back :slight_smile: Listen, you still don’t quite get it. I’ll help you. Remember that when I use to give my outlooks on games and you use to attack me for not watching the game and only using the stat sheet to come up with my statement? That’s what you are doing with this topic too. Yes, his numbers aren’t great when it comes to the last 2 minutes. But, he has won games at the end with his shooting and foul shooting. Many last year. Not as much this year. He’s been off when they are needed. Perhaps he isn’t physically 100%. So, it isn’t just about those numbers. What also has to be looked at is each game and what he did to help win games at the end. So, don’t get completely wrapped up in the stats :wink: