Why is BYU in this Funk? Coaching, end of subject

Basketball
1

In some earlier post, I said, “I have no idea what is going on with the program”. I have been too busy to watch BYU lose the last 3 games, still angry about handing SCU their win but I do have a clue and I borrow this post BY Blue Tsunami

" > “I know we keep talking about losing Harwood and Baxter as the reason our season has gone south. I think it is more than that. Harwood went down in an exhibition game and has not played a single minute in a game that counted on our record this year. Baxter was recovering from a serious injury and was playing limited minutes. For the 5 games he played, only once did he play more than 15 minutes and only 3 times did he play more than 10 minutes. What we are all stating is we ‘hoped’ they would have been better with those two. But we really never had those two this whole season. Yet somehow BYU made it to the top 25 and according to just about every source was a lock for the tournament.

“What has happened to BYU in the last two weeks has to do with the players on the floor, not the players in street clothes. Teams have adjusted to BYU, and BYU has not adjusted to them. I lay this squarely on our coaching staff. The players we have now are the same ones we had when we beat SDSU, Utah, and blew out Oregon. (Save 15 minutes from Baxter per game) Why are we continuing to run the same offense and defense when it is obvious to anyone that watches this team play that other teams know how to defeat it and even teams like Pacific are having their way.

“Pope seems like a good guy. I have always thought he had a great ability to individually coach kids up. But now we need him to be the coach of the team. Make some adjustments coach. If you are good, now is the time to show it.”

— Blue_Tsunami"

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Completely agree! I would also include that because of the adjustments teams have made, our players are unable to DO fundamentals under pressure. Passing, dribbling, protecting the ball while holding the ball and shooting.

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I agree with the a lot of what you are saying, but I have remind people prior to this year, a lot of posters were extolling how Pope was the Reincarnation of John Wooden.

Well at least that is the feeling I had about what Posters posted.

Now we are on a 4 game losing streak and fans are jumping off the bandwagon as fast as they can.

The thing I remember about Jerry Sloan is that he always had a thought about everything:

This quote sums up BYU right now:
"These guys have been criticized… for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the MOST IMPORTANT thing in sports is to keep trying.

So I guess my question to everyone: Has the players stop “trying”?

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2 things.
BYU is BORING to watch. can’t generate offense. It’s like watching BYU football when our defense can’t get off the field and the offense is STUCK watching from the sidelines, when they could score just about any time they have the ball.
Our BBALL team can’t score, can’t stop the other team from scoring. Stop Barcello and beat BYU, boy, that gets me excited to watch games.

2nd,
Trent Plasted on Twitter, “Criticizing BYU players is not going to motivate them, trust me, there is nobody that wants to win more than the Coaches and especially the players”

Like I said, If starters are taking starter minutes and are not producing, Coach either has to CHANGE his offense with his current starters or plug in the players that have confidence and sit the guys that are killing our offense.

If anyone thinks this is brutal, just wait til BYU joins the #1 basketball conference in the nation.

If Pope has the talent and BYU is not winning, It is ALL on HIM.
Those of us that have coached know that Teams are leaving Lohner open from 3. So Pope tries Lohner down low, that failed as well. Knell became the starter because he is a long distance killer, played some very good defense last year but is a total liability on defense this year. And his 3 is far from consistent this year. SIT EM, go with better defense, better shooting in George and Knight. Make it so Barcello not is doubled every possession.

If your outside shot isn’t hitting, go inside. Knight can muck it up with anyone… George can as well. Lohner has the body to do real damage inside. There’s 50 ways to win games.

Why do I write every year, all year long…Who can create a shot, drive inside??? It is because that is the only variable that defenses can’t guard. (case in point, National champ, Baylor, won it with guard play, three guys that could all hit shots or drive inside) BYU has 2 1/2.guys that can create…Barcello, Lucas and 3 non starters, 5 if you include 2 bench guys.
So Coach, all you have right now is ingredients, not the cake.

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One area we have become weak in is with assists. In the past, we won with assists. This year, we are about the drive one on one and not enough assists.

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These fundamentals are not a coaching issue. They are a player issue. You can’t coach a player on how to pass or dribble or protect the ball while holding and shooting. Either the players know how to do it or they don’t. It comes with experience and learning. The players need to take responsibility for how they are playing. I say it is mostly psychological at this point… mental mistakes, confidence, etc. and there is really no reason for what they are doing out there on the court except it is on them to play better. I don’t think it is a coaching issue. People were saying how great a coach Pope is and now all of the sudden he isn’t?

I’m not buying it.

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So which one is it? You can’t have it both ways. Lohner has regressed as the year has gone on. Why is he not getting better? That is on him, not the coaches. He has been given lots of opportunities and doesn’t do anything with it. Same with Johnson and Knell. The problem is nobody is confident or assertive besides Barcello. I don’t blame the coach for what the players are doing on the court. I blame the players for how they play on the court.

Maybe the talent isn’t what everyone thinks it is. Also, the wcc and the officials have NEVER been kind to BYU. Why is Barcello missing free throws that could win the game?

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You may not buy it but you aren’t right. The coach take responsibility on everything. In tonight’s game the fundamentals were better on offense. First half, the defense was horrible. Stick to referring. Leave the coaching to the coaches :sunglasses:

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If you put Fish’s post in the opposite order you posted them he makes complete sense. He has the ability but it’s failed so far.

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BYU finally won the game tonight against LMU in overtime barely.
With one second left and Seneca Knight two free throws to win the game and he made the first shot and missed second shot on purpose and LMU grabbed the rebound and called time out and got some time remaining left. Wait a minute how come they still got Time left after this missed FT on purpose and still less than One second left in the game? That is crazy and imagine who knows if someone would have made that shot at the buzzer give me a break.

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There were some bad calls. But, that isn’t why it was so close.

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I remember Jim Hawks always says BYU 5 players against 7 players on other WCC team and yeah those referees are ridiculous and idiots
Good night

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true WCC jealousy

The 2nd half of the game is exactly what was needed. George and Knight played great to augment the big 3 of Barcello, Lucas and Fooooooos.

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BYU has to start off with good defense. We let them get too many open 3’s. We struggle at Pepperdine. We have to come out with great pressure defense.

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I think most college basketball is boring to watch, that is why I don’t watch it.

I don’t have any former players or coaches I can get insight into this issue. But I have watched pro basketball for most of my life.

Based on that experience, I think fans are a bit hard on Coaches and players. Some calling them talentless players or whatever.

Have you noticed, even on high level games like the NBA or elite basketball that teams some how gets into a “funk”. Every team in the NBA has gone through a funk even with their best players playing.

Take for example the Jazz in the month of January, the went 4-12 which for them was a disastrous stretch of games. They went from 2nd place in the west to 5th. This is basically the same team that had the best record last year.

Sometimes as a team they get in funk as a whole, maybe there are things going on outside of basketball or maybe this pandemic has effected them in an unusual way, or maybe some players are banged up and not performing well, who knows? I did not know that Lucas was out with a neck injury, did anyone else?

I am just saying, sometimes “Shitz” happens and a team needs to fight through it all to end a losing streak

But what do I know.

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What do you know? What a set up!
Not much :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Thanks for that one. I love to watch college sports because it’s much more entertaining to root for your school. It was fun to see BYU fight to get better in the 2nd half.

Fundamentals were better last night and I could see that except for the defensive rebounding in the last couple of minutes. Standing around watching the ball instead of fighting for position blocking out. Still falling down for no reason as well.

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It’s amazing to me to see all the so-called fans on the Pope band wagon for so long and then all of of sudden it’s Pope’s fault he isn’t coaching up the players or changing the schemes. Hogwash. It’s the player’s responsibility to execute, and they haven’t been doing it until the 2nd half last night, and a missed ft from a 90% foul shooter almost cost them another game. It happens-part of life. The facts are that teams have caught up to BYU. They know that Barcello is the hub that this team revolves around and they are doubling him every time he touches the ball. It’s up to the other players to step up and make shots, not turn the ball over, and make defensive plays. Last night it was Lucas, George and Foos. At the beginning of the season a lot of you were saying Lohner was a NBA talent. Lohner is now basically a mess with zero confidence. I’ve seen Pope try multiple lineups the past few games. Last night was a new one, but it doesn’t matter what new schemes you come up with the players have to execute or you lose. Pope doesn’t fumble balls out of bounds, Pope doesn’t miss foul shots. Pope doesn’t commit turnovers. Right there is 3 wins BYU should have had and would have been in second place. I don’t lay this on Pope. The great depth that BYU was supposed to have just hasn’t happened and with two freshmen and undersized guards, and inconsistent shooting from those you expect to make shots-well, this is what you have. I feel bad for the players and the coaches-Barcello and Lucas are warriors, George has come a long ways and Foos and Atiki are going to be good-it just didn’t come together this year and the WCC is pretty good this year with a lot of bangers

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Lohner stepped up and drilled two free throws nothing but net. He played good defense as well in that comeback. Made a couple of great passes.

You are right about the players needing to make the plays. But, what was happening was their fundamentals disappeared for a 4 game series. The first game that happened the coaches should have been able to stop that. 4.5 games later, they do. Still not great but much better.

Teams are improving while our play didn’t. Went backwards. With the talent BYU has that should not have happened. That’s coaching. Hopefully we are going to play like we did in the 2nd half the rest of the year.

What I don’t like about our offense there is too much standing around. There is little pass and screen away or any motion except outside with the weave in which teams are taking away and trapping Barcello with. Need to screen away and pop someone to the free throw line.

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You may be 100% right. but then we are not in the huddle and don’t know to what extent the players run the plays that Pope has called out. I just know that last night, the players made the right plays at the end of that game as opposed to three other winnable games where we completely collapsed.

I also know that after 3 straight losses, I began to point out that we were not getting production from 2 starters and that Pope should go with new guys that have been very good getting points. George and Knight., Yes, it was good to see Lucas out there last night because without him BYU has little chance of winning ANY games…but stats don’t lie and George had a very BIG night and Knight won that game for us.

BYU won that game because we went inside to Foooooooos often and he dominated. Lucas and George also had monster games.

It is concerning to me that George, who is basically a guard was stuck on big forwards last night, that is where we really miss Lohner. but I will get to that in another thread.

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and that was it from him in the scoring department. He scored 2 points! You don’t see a problem with that? Come on Hopper, even you gotta see the issue here. He has to contribute more.